Adding "Known Words" to the statistics dropdown

Support & Feedback Forum
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I think Team LingQ versus the users, there is a fundamental difference in understanding regarding the meaning of the check mark, and also regarding the completion of a lesson.

  1. At the end of the lesson there should be a way to indicate, I have reached the end of this lesson and am finished looking at it for now, I am leaving this lesson for now but reserve the option to come back to it later. Or just have two checkmarks, one to close the lesson without marking as completed, leaving all blue words blue, and one to close and mark all blue words as known.

  2. On the “continue studying” row are all the lessons anyway. You can mark any of the “complete” -i.e. don’t want to look at them any more - from there. That would be a nice place to choose to click “remove from row and turn all blue words to known” or just “remove from row.”

  3. Blue should mean “save for later” (status zero) so the word doesn’t show up in the flashcards BUT also doesn’t get added to “known” words.

Just because I’ve seen it and paged past it does NOT mean that I know the word. Also sometimes part of the word is on one page and part of the word is on the next page, or a sentence is half on one page and half on the next page, so it’s impossible to know the meaning of the word without turning the page first.

Setting “checkmark turns stuff blue/doesn’t” globally (or as someone suggested, globally per device) would make sense.

Having a yes/no confirmation pop up after clicking “complete lesson” makes a lot of sense for some but not for all users; if that can be enabled/disabled from the general settings for those who don’t want it. (Some would find it annoying). Or it could have a “do not show again” checkbox.

Actually, calling these reading passages “lessons” may be part of what is causing some of the confusion. Not all of us are progressing sequentially through graded lessons. Many of us are just reading /listening/watching material of interest that we imported from all around the internet, which is exactly what LingQ advertises as a selling point. These are not sequential “lessons.” I am usually finished looking at articles without having thoroughly learned all of the vocabulary they contain. These are not “lessons” in the way a school would understand that word.

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43

As a several-year user, I don’t think there is a fundamental difference between LingQ and the users, or at least not in the area you highlighted. I think you are in the minority position for how blue words work and what it means to complete a lesson, and what you’re advocating here sounds something like redefining the entire blue-yellow paradigm. I don’t think that’s a reasonable request.

You could make the case that the “lesson complete” button should stand out more or be in a slightly different location so you don’t accidentally click it while paging through, but there is already an option to turn off the setting where paging automatically moves blue words to known. I think that would solve most of your problems.

As to the “leaving the lesson for now” thing, if you turn off the setting where paging automatically marks words as known, then you can just close the lesson using the “x” at the top left and achieve functionally the same effect. No need for them to add another button.

Blue means “this word is new to you.” LingQ isn’t going to change that. It’s kind of integral to their whole method.

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How do you know? Any statistics on this?

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I also agree with previous guys. It would be nice at leaset in web site to see how much of needed items I did this day to be on track in achieving chalenges at least by goving over the specific statistic by mouse in dropdown menu. That way you can keep current design and also we could get to the old statistics without clicking too much. Thanks

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LingQ is a created project, so we don’t need statistics. All we need is what the developers have told us about the design, and there are lots of places, including in the app’s tutorials, that tell us that blue words are words we haven’t come across yet in any text we’ve read on LingQ. The program assumes such words are unknown. You can ignore such words (in which case paging forward will mark them as known), or you can click on them and choose a definition for them (which will mark them as unknown and being learned). Here’s a video explaining it:

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The problem is not about blue or yellow words, it’s the behaviour of the button “lesson complete”.
The lingQ team has decided when you click on the “lesson complete” button, you also confirm you know all words!. Which in many cases is not true. And lingQ doesn’t ask if this is true.

Instead of this automatic, and in many cases faulty behaviour, lingQ could have asked if I want to mark all words as known. And better yet, take away this strange function. I know which words I want to mark as know. LingQ doesn’t know.

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This is a perennial issue, but (as many of us have said before - many - many - times) the reality is, if you page forward, you are acknowledging that you know all words on the page. LingQ cannot possibly work any differently. The entire system is built to work on that premise and the developers have said quite clearly, time after time, that it’s not going to change. It’s not “faulty behavior” - it is the way the system has to be designed. When you click to page forward, that little arrow you’re about to click on IS LingQ asking you if you know all words on the page. If you don’t know all of them, and if you can’t stand the thought of unknown words temporarily going into your known words database, for goodness sake DON’T CLICK TO PAGE FORWARD!

It is the user’s job to ensure all words on a page are known (or marked as LingQs) before paging forward. But if you miss a word you don’t know, it’s okay: you will catch it the next time you see it - at that point it will not be blue anymore because the software thinks you know it, BUT YOU WILL STILL STOP AT IT because you still won’t know what it means, so you’ll still be able to mark it as unknown and thus fix it on the second viewing. If you miss it on a second, third, and fourth viewing, you’ll catch it on the fifth viewing. So the system is self-correcting - it doesn’t matter even if you miss words ten times in a row - doesn’t matter at all. Nor does it matter if you miss ten pages full of words you don’t know. Eventually you will catch them.

How else would you do it? What is your solution?

The reality is, you have to page on at some point and a word count has to be made by the software, otherwise it wouldn’t be able to do anything but make lingQs out of words you catch. The system can’t read your mind, so if there was no “page to known” feature it could not possibly put words into your known words database unless you actively marked every single one of them as known, which would slow the system down hugely, imposing a lot of “busy work” on the user - that would not be fun, and most people would simply quit.

I’m a game designer, and designing a game is a lot like programming a system like this - the rules of a game (or the software behind a program) have to work in ways that reduce the user’s workload. You can’t just have a lot of busy work, or people will not play your game. same with language-learning software - the system has to make it easy for users to “play the game” otherwise they will quit.

So the current method is the most efficient method possible.

Users either have to accept this about LingQ, and be careful to know all words on a page before paging forward (or accept that they’ll miss some words and catch them later). If they can’t accept that, they will need to accept that perhaps LingQ is just not the right software for them.

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The known word list isn’t important in LingQ, because over the long-term it’s self-correcting. You should always take it with a pinch of salt.

If a perfectly compiled known word list with no errors is particularly important to you (e.g. for exporting to a different program), then you are going to need to be much more diligent in making sure you know (or have marked as unknown) every single word on every page you read in LingQ.

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It seems to me that LingQ can be used more flexibly…

the reality is, if you page forward, you are acknowledging that you know all words on the page. LingQ cannot possibly work any differently.

Can’t we turn the feature of words marked as known due to a page forward off? The general settings seem to allow this:

image

It seems like LingQ works perfectly fine if going to the next page doesn’t move all the blue words to known. If that works for individual pages, it should work for whole lessons too. LingQ could offer a similar choice for lessons as it already does for individual pages - allowing users some choice how to use the platform.

Some useres are quite dilligent with the words they mark as known. For them, any automatic interference with there known words is inefficient and creates extra work.

Other users might be rather generous with their known words and enjoy some automatic assistance, making words known.

It seems to me that LingQ can work well for both user types.

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This was (AFAIK) added to LingQ after launch. And Sure, you can do that. But then you’re essentially just using LingQ as an expensive e-Reader. I guess as long as you’re using the free version, there’s no negative in doing that. But it’s not how LingQ was intended to be used.

And again, if people use the system as it was originally designed, it doesn’t matter - at all - how diligent or casual people are at marking words as LingQs. The system is self-correcting.

The issue here, as far as I can tell, is that a few users are obsessed with making sure their known words list is 100% accurate. But that simply doesn’t matter, because:
1, there’s nothing to be gained from that;
2, LingQ’s “words” aren’t really “words” anyway - they’re more akin to “word forms”,
3, no matter how many false known words you accumulate, LingQ will (sooner or later) self-correct.

Finally, LingQ’s system does not provide any “automatic assistance” to add words to the known words list, It’s all entirely manual: the user must click to page forward to add all known words on the current page to the known words list. Manually clicking on the arrow is the only way it gets done - nothing gets done automatically.

I think perhaps some users get caught up in the minutiae of the workings of LingQ, and too focused on word counts, reviews, charts, etc. But all users have to do in order for LingQ to work is keep reading and marking unknown words as LingQs. If people just do that, and stop worrying about anything else, their vocabulary and their language ability will improve.

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@Pr0metheus I generally agree with you. However, lately, I have also found useful sometimes to just use LingQ as a casual reader when on iPhone. Without the “self-pressure” to decide if I know the word or if I have to select the definition provided from the popular meaning. There is not a button (I’ll do it later, now I just read casually).

I like to read casual news on my iPhone when possible, but I really don’t feel comfortable in wasting time by “writing” definitions. To avoid this, I usually use the audio input to go faster, but I can’t do it if I’m in places where there are other people.

I have written that in my previous post, if you have read that. Which is kinda different, I believe, from the general feeling about these blue words. As you said, in fact, this is a recurring topic.

For example, I like to turn all blue words when paging, and that everything is recorded when finishing a lesson, because I don’t want to waste much time on those things by doing more clicks!

One thing I thought too, at least in my case, is that once/if LingQ would add ChatGPT definitions inside the popular meaning, my problem would go away. I would just choose those definitions without any problem, at least I know those are not complete wrong definitions as often happens with the popular meaning.

I personally don’t care about being too precise with false known words as you said. The reason is that when we look at the big numbers, if I have 100k known words, I don’t really care if 5k are wrong. Whatever! I will definitely know the language at that point! Or as you say, the system will self-correct.

But I’m more precise with LingQs/yellow words. I can’t help it.

Unfortunately, with this set up, I find it difficul to casual read on iPhone (I mean, if you don’t page forward, you haven’t read much on a smartphone!). It’s easier to use audio playlists, or repeat single lessons already read to reinforce listening skills. But not new readings.

At least, I haven’t found a good solution so far.

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I’m not sure if I read your earlier comments before. I think this thread has been popping up for a few months, so I might have read some of them a while back.

I used to use my iPhone to read, but now I have a Kindle so I use that - it’s easier on the eyes.

I guess I don’t have a problem with people using LingQ as a reader. Like I say, I just think it’s an expensive option to pay for a subscription to LingQ if that’s all people are going to use it for when there are free e-reader apps out there.

But my main issue is that I find it a bit frustrating because the developers have said many times that they won’t be changing the default way the app works, so it gets irksome to me when people insist on calling “paging moves to known” a bug or a flaw, or faulty behavior when: 1, it’s the one essential foundation of the system; and 2, there’s an option to switch it off.

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I agree, I have a Kindle as well but now I basically almost always use LingQ in my target language. It forces me to be more mentally focused when I read, even if casually.
In “my case”, I would use LingQ as intended, as usual, and sometimes as just simply an e-reader.
It wouldn’t be expensive at all, but it would be an added feature.

I agree as well, however, this thread is new, and you are confusing it with another previous thread. In this scenario, the team itself has asked to elaborate more on why people would like this change. I think they are considering it, and they are trying to understand if it’s worth it or not, and which direction to take. So I think it’s fair if users express their opinions so that the team can better understand what to do.

I hear you, that’s not a flaw.

However, at certain point, I believe that if more and different users ask the same questions over and over, maybe there is a reason, and the team should listen to it.

As @B.Oliver said, maybe the software can work well for both types of users, and all the others could benefit from both solutions.

I think the only problem, or “fear” the team maybe has, it is to lose their identity and create confusion on how users should use their software. I believe this could be probably bypassed. People are confused anyway. :rofl:

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Totally agree with what @Pr0metheus said. The blue/yellow word thing (i.e. blue means you haven’t seen the word before, yellow means you’ve saved it, white means you either told the system you know it or told the system to ignore it) is how the site is designed to work, so those of us who use the site are inherently signing up for that plan when we subscribe. Someone who doesn’t like that plan will either have to get used to it or find a new place to study languages. I don’t need a statistic to know that most people who use LingQ for more than five minutes are on board with how they define what a blue word is. Otherwise they’d leave, which is totally their prerogative, and best of luck to them.

An important point in my earlier post was highlighting that when asking for changes to the site, we should try to ask for changes that are reasonable based on how the site is designed. This is not to say that LingQ is perfect. There are many, many threads with people raising legitimate gripes about things not working as intended. But we should still try to make reasonable requests for changes, not ask them to redo their entire plan.

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Have you tried Readlang? It might be more what you’re looking for in the “casual reader” category…

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I wonder whether there is a misunderstanding somehow.

As far as I am concerned LingQ is much more than just an expensive e-book reader, even if I don’t use the ‘manual [bulk] making words known functions’.
LingQ gives me almost instant access to translations, saves my preferred translations, I can add my own translations and comments, I can listen and read at the same time, or only listen or only read; I can upload from youtube…

Example: I have imported a Spanish youtube video which - while mostly Spanish - has also a passage in another language (e.g. English). Currently I need to mark all English words to ignore (shortcut x) if I want to finish the lesson. Otherwise I risk marking them as known via the ‘manual [bulk] making words known function’. Not such a big deal perhaps, but I prefer to have fewer non-Spanish known words under my Spanish Known-Words. And yes, I can decide not to finish the lesson, but then I need to (inefficiently) go into the same course again, scroll to the next lesson…

My process is reasonable efficient. I listen (Spanish often with 1.25x speed) while reading along and mostly don’t even need to stop to create LingQs because I understand from listening and can jump back and continue reading after I have created a new LingQ.

When it comes to a language like Korean (which is more foreign to me and where I am less advanced) I need to go slower, usualy with many stops. I have to look at each Korean blue word anyhow. So for Korean I never had a situation where ‘manual [bulk] making words known functions’ would have made my process more efficient. Speeding up and being less precise tends to back-fire here - unknown words tend to become noise instead of comprehensible input then.

What would interest me is: What part of your known words do you create via the ‘manual [bulk] making words known functions’ (via page turning and at the end of the lesson)? Perhaps a rough estimate?

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@Caldazar It’s a few years that I use LingQ. I know ReadLang and it’s not LingQ at all. I tried it and deleted it.
I have already written tens of thousands of definitions on LingQ, and used it with 4 languages, sorry but if I wanted to read in a casual way an article on my iPhone this morning on LingQ, it’s not a big deal if I would use it as an e-reader SOMETIMES. Yes, I can read it on Kindle, or I can just read it on the browser without using LingQ. Thanks, I know that myself.

To me, if they don’t change it, I don’t really care, but if I had that option too when I need it, why not?

If they fixed the popular meaning with chatGPT, the problem for me would be gone. I don’t need to use it as an e-reader. But sometimes, it would be useful in certain occasions.
Or for example, if I want to read something at night, on my bed, with an iPad, just for relaxing and I don’t want to search too deeply some blue words.

There is no option to say, leave that blue word like that because the popular meaning sucks and I don’t have time (or a keyboard) to quickly write my own definition!

I would like, eventually, to have that option manually as well, just by single blue words.

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Exactly this. This would solve the issue some of us have with this feature entirely very easily.

PLEASE PLEASE do it

Its incredibly easy to complete the lesson accidentally, especially in imported material that has split into 2 lessons (I find this a lot with podcast transcripts) - so you think you are moving to the next page, and because you are engrossed mid sentence don’t notice the subtle change in icon.

Or an option to turn it off - in the same way you can turn it off page to page.

Any of these things would work. Personally my order of preference would be:

Move the button and make it look completely different
Turn it off in settings
An ARE YOU SURE button. (or a choice to Lingq all instead of move to known)

(The last one i put third as I imagine it will annoy some users just as much as moving words to known annoys me!! But its a good idea for my brain LOL)

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But the accuracy of the known words list IS important, for some people.

When I first got onto Lingq, as a beginner, I was really excited, thinking that LingQ would be keeping track of my known vocabulary for me, and I’d finally have a list of the words I knew.

I was especially anticipating that the “known words” list would be a great word bank from which I would finally be able to practice creating some of my very own sentences, and a great help when trying to figure out what subjects I would be able to write about. (It’s not. Too many unfamiliar words to wade through, too overwhelming.)

So, for me, an accurate “known words” list would have been useful.

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This would be great! :slight_smile:

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