Great explanation
I think John Oliver needs to look up a dictionary. Saying he believes the Inauguration crowd was bigger than the media reported it to be is not a lie, it’s a statement of belief based on whatever evidence has seen. He might be wrong, but that still wouldnt make it a lie. Same thing goes to pretty much everything else he claims has been a lie.
For something to be a lie, you have to intentionally say something that you know is not correct. In other words, you need (a) intention and (b) the fact of the situation. John Oliver does not show that Trump had an intention to lie nor does he show that Trump knows that what he is saying is false.
I wonder when these kinds of liberals will stop the misrepresentations of Trump.
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How about all the other lies? Quoting from fake news outlets? Re-tweeting from TV without cheking facts? Ignoring basic political or economical facts? and so on and so forth
You’ve gone through all the arguments and have just addressed the one you have found weaker (and not very convincingly at that, you’re mostly playing semantics) and then have generalized to state that it’s a misrepresentation
That’s “cherry picking” (Cherry picking - Wikipedia) for you (I know that you like naming fallacies)
Disregarding arguments because they’re from “these kinds of liberals” is an example of “Association fallacy” (Association fallacy - Wikipedia)
For me, this is the main problem of Trump’s (and others’) “alternative facts”. Some people are so eager to defend him (mostly because he’s his enemies’ enemy) that they accept all lies and try hard to look the other way and pretend the bt is knowledge.
That makes otherwise intelligent people become less and less so as they slide down the bt ladder
I watched the first 3 minutes of the video and he didnt even bother trying to show that they actually were lies. I skipped ahead a bit, but it followed the same line as in the beginning so it didnt seem worth more of my time.
Quoting from fake news outlets is not a lie, its a quote. Re-tweeting is also not lying. Not checking facs do not make anything a lie. I dont know the exact cases, but this is not convincing. I dont know what political or economic fact he has ignored (not that it would make him any more of a liar because of it).
I am using the guy’s statements. If he wanted to convince people outside of his mainstream audience, he probably shouldn’t have used examples that have nothing to do with lying.
I do not disregard arguments, I disregard statements without arguments. It’s very easy to claim that someone is lying when you dont have to give any arguments why.
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You disregard arguments without listening to them but run to try to counter them when they don’t fit in with your side’s narrative. In the process, you don’t hesitate to fall back on obvious fallacies
The arguments are there and, yes, repeatedly re-stating lies that happen to suit your interests or your ego is lying. And checking facts is a duty for anyone who wants to make informed decisions, much more so if in a position of responsibility
I defend Trump when he is clearly being misrepresented. If he said that Trump was wrong and explained why, that’d be fine and I wouldn’t need to defend him.
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He does. You just decided to just listen to a few minutes so you could come up with a hasty excuse and made up some flawed arguments to try and back it up
If Donald Trump says something that is wrong, and someone proves it, that’s good. If Donald Trump says something that he knows is wrong (ie a “lie”) and someone proves it, that’s good too.
However, while this may be the “main problem” for you about Trump, it is not the “main problem” Trump’s enemies have with him. Nor are these “alternative facts” the reason why Trump’s supporters back him.
Rather, people love and hate Trump, respectively, because of what he’s doing now, and what he plans to do, to change the country.
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Thats a claim. You are saying that Trump is re-stating lies (are they lies though?) to suit his interests, where is the evidence or argument that he is? Maybe they aren’t lies, maybe that is his honest perception. Oliver takes too many things as a given and thats why it is so unconvincing to me.
I fear that liberals will use the word lie so much that it will completely loose its meaning in the next few years just like the words racism, sexism and similar buzzwords, shame.
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Sure, but he first called them lies without giving any reasons as to why they were lies. Saying something wrong does not make it a lie. As said, there is no demonstration of intent or that Trump knows he is wrong
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I don’t know what other people love or hate. I respect their and your opinion
However, I do think that being “loose on facts” is a major problem, particularly if indulged upon by people in high offices. As I wrote before, in part for the impact on political dialogue and for the effect of lowering of argumentation standards among his followers (and the public at large)
The idea that “it doesn’t matter how badly facts get distorted, it’s all about results and plans” seems to be a re-edition of the old adage
“The ends justifiy the means”
You’re not addressing any of the issues I mentioned, Tarris1 and you just restate your fallacies
I rest my case
I demonstrate that the basis of your so-called “issues” are nonexistent. “repeatedly re-stating lies that happen to suit your interests or your ego is lying” This is false.
“And checking facts is a duty for anyone who wants to make informed decisions, much more so if in a position of responsibility”, says who? And what facts?
“You disregard arguments without listening to them but run to try to counter them when they don’t fit in with your side’s narrative. In the process, you don’t hesitate to fall back on obvious fallacies” I dont disregard arguments because they do not exist in this video. He does not argue, he claims.
I think you’re right. Trump’s supporters also seem to love his different way of communication as they are sick and tired of hearing the same politically corrected speech made by sophisticated speechmakers. Trump appears more authentic to me and I also love the way he has appointed people into office, deliberately appointing people who run contrary to his views and between themselves to strengthen the breadth of debate.
What follows is an excerpt from Fox News (January 21, 2017).
Fact Check: Trump overstates Size of crowd at inaugural
TRUMP: “I made a speech. I looked out. The field was — it looked like a million, a million and a half people.”
The president went on to say that one network “said we drew 250,000 people. Now that’s not bad. But it’s a lie.” He then claimed that were 250,000 right by the stage and the “rest of the, you know, 20-block area, all the way back to the Washington Monument was packed.”
“So we caught them,” said Trump. “And we caught them in a beauty. And I think they’re going to pay a big price.”
THE FACTS: Trump is wrong. Photos of the National Mall from his inauguration make clear that the crowd did not extend to the Washington Monument. Large swaths of empty space are visible on the Mall.
Thin crowds and partially empty bleachers also dotted the inaugural parade route. Hotels across the District of Columbia reported vacancies, a rarity for an event as large as a presidential inauguration.
And ridership on the Washington’s Metro system didn’t match that of recent inaugurations. As of 11 a.m. that day, there were 193,000 trips taken, according to the transit service’s Twitter account. At the same hour eight years ago, there had been 513,000 trips. Four years later, there were 317,000 for Obama’s second inauguration.
I believe what Trump did, in this instance, is fabricate.
According to Wikipedia: “A fabrication is a lie told when someone submits a statement as truth, without knowing for certain whether or not it actually is true. Although the statement may be possible or plausible, it is not based on fact. Rather, it is something made up, or it is a misrepresentation of the truth. Examples of fabrication: A person giving directions to a tourist when the person doesn’t actually know the directions. Often propaganda is fabrication.”
I cannot believe that the mainstream media just added “liar” to a very long list of insults used in order to characterize Trump. Absolutely incredible!
We first got sexist, bigot, narcissistic, homophobic, racist, fascist, The New Hitler, islamophobic, and now “liar”.
I guess that one will do it! Everyone will stop supporting him for sure now.
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I’m beginning to doubt whether you’d know an argument if it bit your rear
“A fabrication is a lie told when someone submits a statement as truth, without knowing for certain whether or not it actually is true” so all statements are lies? Who knows for certain what they say is true? When do we know when someone has submitted a statement “as truth”?
you forgot xenophobic and white supremacist
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