You could say this is DAMN close to home for me! As I believe I’ve mentioned before, Salisbury was where I was at school. It’s about an hour’s car journey from where I live now - but I still visit there from time to time. When the story broke I knew exactly and precisely where the bench was that Skripal and his daughter were found. Both the Italian restaurant and the pub where they were on the day of the attack are known to me (although I haven’t personally been in either.)
It now seems that dozens of people have suffered some symptoms of nerve agent poisoning, although only three of them are in a really serious condition - including the two apparent targets. Whole areas of Salisbury city centre are out of bounds, people are being told their clothes and personal items could have some trace level contamination.
The idea that some maniac is going around a quiet English cathedral city spraying chemical weapons more deadly than VX or Sarin…I mean…that’s uncool! :-0
The current hypothesis is that the Russian government carried out this attack on Mr Skripal - who was of course a defector. Maybe that’s true? Sadly enough it can’t be ruled out. But I just struggle to believe that Russians would be so reckless as to carry out a chemical weapons attack of this kind, with the obvious potential for mass causalities!
If you wanted to eliminate someone, what’s wrong with a good 'ole bullet in the back, or a knife attack in a dark alley? But chemical weapons…heaven help us! Where is this madness going to end??
I’m waiting for the President of the US to utter a word about this attack on our biggest ally, but so far, he’s been oddly silent. An attack of this type should not be a subject of “political rage” since it should go beyond politics to protect your homeland and your allies. But yes, oddly enough those subjects have become political. I wonder why.
Jay, what to discuss?
The stupid speech of your Prime Minister?
I condole with all victims of this chemical attack but to guilt right away Putin and Russia, without any investigations - it’s ridiculous!
I am not a big supporter of Putin.
But he is not a mad idiot to do something similar on the eve of the Presidential elections in Russia where he is the main candidate.
it could be done only by the enemies of Putin to destroy completely the relationships between Russia and the Western countries.
It could be the ‘Russian track’, but only in that meaning that it could be done by someone who was born in Russia but now lives in the UK or (I don’t want to write it but I have to) it could be also a ‘dirty play’ of the British Intelligence to demonize Putin and Russia even more.
By the way, you can notice strange pictures in YouTube - some people are in special clothes and masks and nearby there are a lot of people without any mascs. If this substance is really so dangerous, why people without mascs are there?
“…it could be done only by the enemies of Putin to destroy completely the relationships between Russia and the Western countries…”
This is a reasonable hypothesis - there are countries (and terrorist groups) that don’t like what Russia is doing in Syria. If we were to view this incident in isolation I could go along with the idea that this was a John Le Carré style triple-bluff operation carried out by ISIS with some rogue state backing - all done with the aim of undermining Russia on the world stage.
But…you know…there do seem to have been quite a lot of Putin-enemies in the UK that have come to a sticky end over the last decade or so - this was just the latest incident in a line! So one really has to wonder whether it can all be explained away?
“…it could be also a ‘dirty play’ of the British Intelligence to demonize Putin and Russia even more…”
You see Evgueny, If this attack had been a shooting or stabbing I could even entertain that idea as a concept.
But the idea that MI6 is going to attack an English city with deadly nerve agents??! Well really…I find that idea fantastic! :-0
“…By the way, you can notice strange pictures in YouTube - some people are in special clothes and masks and nearby there are a lot of people without any mascs. If this substance is really so dangerous, why people without mascs are there?..”
Yeah, a lot of people have said that. It feels kind of scary that folks behind a cordon are wearing full chemical weapons protection gear, and yet ordinary people nearby are unprotected. People are just asked to wash or wipe their stuff if they were in the restaurant!
But I understand that the nature of this nerve agent is that it isn’t transferred in the air - you have to come into physical contact with it. The authorities believe that they have identified and cordoned off all of the places that Mr Skripal and his daughter were on the day of the attack. So it’s only the investigation teams working within these danger-zones that need protection.
BTW
I think you know that I am not by any means a Russophobe! In fact, in general terms, I have quite a lot of sympathy for Putin’s foreign policy.
But IF he ordered this attack on our city…well…it’s disappointing, you know…
Evgueny wrote: “But he is not a mad idiot to do something similar on the eve of the Presidential elections in Russia where he is the main candidate.”
I doubt that this incident has an immediate negative impact on the election results for Putin. The reactions I hear from russian friends and family members (even the one’s who aren’t fervent patriots or supporters of Putin) range from “He has chosen to be a traitor and knew about the risk.” to “Another spy was killed in Britain by any intelligence service. So what?”. On the other hand the nationalists are cheering.
By the way: I wonder why the British government has disagreed to send samples of the toxin to Russia for imvestigation.
I also wonder why they won’t send samples. That’s just arrogant and to me it shows their intention to proclaim Russia guilty without making any serious attempt of investigation. Smells like Theresa May trying to win votes. US and UK officials can state their “facts” all they want and their background choir of lesser western leaders can keep repeating their words, but to me it’s just another allegation without proof. Disregarding all that, It does of course suck that someone would use a nerve poison like this. The police man didn’t deserve what he got. And I don’t know what the guy’s daughter did except being at the scene.
I hear what you’re saying. It’s actually weird, because I would normally tend to be on your side. I mean, yes, damn it, give the Kremlin the samples if they want them so badly! I don’t know what it’s going to change?
I dunno…it’s HARD for me to be neutral in this situation…it really is.
You could say that Salisbury is one of the important places from my childhood - and it’s just been freaking violated with the deadliest chemical weapon known to man! As I said above, I personally know the exact spot where these unfortunate people were found… (And BTW my sister’s husband was one of the guys who rushed to the scene with chemical protection suits when it became clear what was going down…)
Its hard to explain how it feels when something as f__ked up as this happens relatively close to home. It literally feels as if it could have been me or someone I know caught up in this! :-0
As for Skripal, yeah, I get that he was a traitor to his own country. I get that many Russians don’t care that much that he was attacked. Okay. For my part I’d just as soon that Russian hitmen weren’t going around murdering old men (and their daughters) on our streets. But if they absolutely HAVE to do it, it’s just not damned well okay to do it with chemical weapons that could have killed numerous ordinary people as well!!
And I just can’t accept this idea that the British state was behind this. It’s like the fruit-and-nut conspiracy theory that 9/11 was an “inside job”. For me, the idea that a country would do something like that to itself fails every basic common sense test.
This attack is a gift from God for Prime Minister May. Her approval ratings are likely to go way up thanks to her rhetoric towards the Russian government, although nothing much is going to change.
President Putin has been able to gain popularity in uniting the Russian nation against the West since 2014, and I hence doubt that he’s losing any sleep over this. Both parties have something to gain from this conflict.
It is highly unlikely that the order to kill Skripal came from Putin himself. He created a system in which many bureaucrats are tempted to impress their boss and act on their own because they THINK that this is what the boss wants. Of course, the Russian President is still responsible for what his minions do (in a system that he created), especially when innocent people are involved.
Regarding the conspiracy theories, it is obviously not impossible that the Ukrainians or British did this, but the fact that Skripal is a traitor makes it very unlikely that the order to kill came from anywhere else than Russia. The regime tolerates enemies, but it hates traitors. It’s the third or fourth time I hear such a story in a few years of following the Russian news.
As always, two types of people will question the validity of the story here:
People with a political stake – in this case a political interest in indemnifying Putin.
People who are “smarter than that” which is the belief that fuels every conspiracy theorist. (Just like Flat Earthers are “smarter than” believing the “bold-faced lie” that the earth is round.)
Have you ever met a believer in a conspiracy theory that believed in a conspiracy theory that did not benefit their political or religious beliefs? (For example, have you ever met a person who said: Man, I’m a proud social and fiscal liberal, and I’m really inspired by Barack Obama, and think he’s the smartest guy to ever run for president and I support all his policies – it’s really too bad that his birth certificate is fake and he was born in Kenya?)
I just struggle to believe that Russians would be so reckless as to carry out a chemical weapons attack of this kind, with the obvious potential for mass causalities!
Exactly the same thing happened in 2006 when they smeared half of London with polonium.
It was a very strange and naive idea to turn Britain into money laundering heaven for Russian officials and their families doing business-as-usual and expect that it would not lead to the full package of consequences. I really want to be wrong, but I doubt that May, despite all her iron lady tone, will be able to do anything, given the amount of Russian cash that has already been poured into Britain.
Prinz Skjegg wrote: “And I just can’t accept this idea that the British state was behind this. It’s like the fruit-and-nut conspiracy theory that 9/11 was an “inside job”. For me, the idea that a country would do something like that to itself fails every basic common sense test.”
I also think it’s unlikely that the British state is behind this. Novichok is a reagent that clearly points to Russia. Except for Litvinenko, Russian “exilants” in Britain (e.g. Berezovsky, Ponomarev, Perepilichny ect.) usually died by “natural causes” or “suicide” So, in my opinion there are two possibilities. 1. Russia poisoned that guy as a clear warning to potential traitors not to follow the same path. 2. The toxin was used by a other intelligence service (Ukrainian, American ect.) to harm Russia.
Americans playing dirty in a NATO member country is almost impossible. Ditto for the Ukrainians. I dislike the Ukrainian government as much as I do the Russian, but the Ukrainians do not kill people abroad.
