Novichok Attack in Salisbury

“…For example, have you ever met a person who said: Man, I’m a proud social and fiscal liberal, and I’m really inspired by Barack Obama, and think he’s the smartest guy to ever run for president and I support all his policies – it’s really too bad that his birth certificate is fake and he was born in Kenya?..”

It’s a fair point!

Mind you there were a whole load of wacko-jacko theories surrounding the Obamas, weren’t there? My personal favourite was the Alex Jones video saying that Michelle Obama is a man!

I mean this is as nutty as hell - quite outrageous in fact. But one senses that Jones was trolling people rather than making a serious suggestion…

@S-K
“…usually died by “natural causes”…”

It’s quite scary if you go down that rabbit hole. I don’t like to get paranoid…yet too many “natural” deaths do start to look weird…

Apparently even the British ex-husband of Anna Chapman (the patsy she married to get UK citizenship) died aged 36 of…yup, you guessed it…natural causes…

Well I just don’t know…?

@Bautov
“…but I doubt that May, despite all her iron lady tone, will be able to do anything…”

I honestly don’t think most British people even want to have any quarrel with Russia, or (in general) see any need for bad feeling, etc. The two countries are not natural adversaries or competitors. We ought to be able to co-exit peacefully!

But in this case it feels like the attack in Salisbury was a pretty egregious and reckless act which endangered numerous people. As I said above, if you want to assassinate someone, why not just use a gun or something!? :-0

(It can’t be any harder to smuggle an untraceable gun into the UK than it would be to smuggle in military grade chemical weapons, surely?)

Ah, how I would love to be 25 again - I would go after learning Russian the way I went after learning German. Sigh.

If Britain open a number of real investigations against Russian officials laundering money in the UK and bring them to trial (then put them in British Guantanamo and let them rot there), everybody in Russia, including ultimate Putin fans, will only be too glad. The love for Putin is matched only by the hate for his cronies.

As for guns…. I think in some circles it’s considered too ordinary and too quick. Besides, it’s a good message for “traitors” and those who can turn out to be potentially disloyal.

Moreover, I don’t even rule out the possibility that Putin deliberately provokes new sanctions because “Russia in the ring of enemies” is the only thing he can sell to people. He simply has nothing else to offer, neither in domestic policies, nor in the economy.

“…As for guns…. I think in some circles it’s considered too ordinary and too quick…”

We used to have this kind of concept in Britain too…several centuries ago!


“…Besides, it’s a good message for “traitors” and those who can turn out to be potentially disloyal…”

And if a British police officer, or some paramedics get poisoned too…?!

What if MI6 or the CIA assassinated Edward Snowdon in Russia and killed or badly harmed several innocent Russian bystanders at the same time? How would that go down with the Russian public?

This kind of recklessness is how wars can accidentally get started, IMO.

BTW This is why I still have some doubts that the highest political leadership was involved. It could have been some criminal elements of the Russian security services.

I still have some doubts that the highest political leadership was involved. It could have been some criminal elements

I really hope that you’re right

Where is he right? Putin is set to safely win the election and this story will change absolutely nothing. Besides, he has got already enough pressure from abroad - and the idea that he has decided to kill some forgotten retired dude to get some extra pressure and boost his popularity seems to me preposterous.
I have no idea what the internal situation in the UK is, but I’d rather believe that they did it themselves, scapegoated Russia and got all hysterical to shift public attention from the domestic affairs.

Kind of an unrelated post here, but the town I live in is Salisbury, so this post drew my attention, but definitely not the same one haha.

This is the sweet corner of the ancient Anglo-Saxon kingdom that has been poisoned by Uncle Vladimir’s maniacs:

:frowning:

Some Russians react in the same way that they did when Kennedy was murdered. Back then, the Soviets were certain that Kennedy’s political opponents had murdered him because that’s business as usual over there…

Why doesn’t LingQ just delete this clown? He’s obviously harassing a user with his nick.

Diplomatic counter-expulsions by Russia:

This is going to be like the old days in the 1980s…

It’s just business as usual. Let’s all just learn some language and try to enjoy life while it lasts.

I find the reaction of Mrs May and Mr Johnson highly irresponsible at best (and if the brilliant TV series Yes Prime Minister taught me anything, I wouldn’t be surprised if their recent claims were just a smoke screen intended to take the focus off their own failing government).

There was a murder attempt. Now’s the time to gather evidence and investigate. If the poison used indeed was some variety of Novichok and a British intelligence agency was able to confirm that, it must know its exact chemical structure. If the Brits know, I suppose lots of different intelligence agencies around the world might know as well, especially in post-Soviet states, and most of them are probably able to synthesize it. Some may even be in possession of it, as I doubt that security standards in the disintegrating USSR were that great.

There’s no indication so far as to who (person) might have done it. They don’t even know how exactly it was done. What’s the motive? I don’t see how Russia would profit from it. Skripal was already convicted in Russia, spent 4 years in prison and then was exchanged in a spy-swap in 2010. What would Russia gain from murdering him 8 years later?

Maybe the FSB did it; I don’t know. But the way the British government handled the situation is appalling. Accusing Putin of personally ordering the attack? How the hell would Johnson know that? Why didn’t Russia get the samples of the nerve agent to be able to analyse it and maybe say: “OK, it seems it might have leaked from one of the former Soviet labs”? It’s really suspicious.

If this was a unique one-off incident I would tend to agree.

But there have been a whole series of Putin-enemies that have been murdered in the UK over the last decade or so. Supposing that Mr Putin had nothing to do with any of this is just naive, in my opinion. I mean who else is responsible? Aliens from the planet Zog?? :-0

BTW
I am not by any means part of the trendy anti-Putin crowd! I have a lot of sympathy for his war against Islamist terrorist thugs in Syria. I have repeatedly stated my support for Russian territorial claims to the Crimea. And I agree that the actions of the West (in particular of the EU) in trying to overthrow a democratically elected president in the Ukraine so as to manoeuvre that country into their sphere was (at best) a piece of dumb provocation towards Russia.

But we just can’t have bastards using nerve agent weapons in Salisbury! If you need to assassinate someone, use a f__ing gun!

(If this happened in one of YOUR home cities, you guys would understand this, I think…)

I am not saying that Putin or some Russian security agency didn’t do it. All I am saying is that the leaders of a country of 65 million should not start accusing a foreign country’s leaders and expelling diplomats without being able to provide any evidence. It really reminds me of this scene from Yes, Prime Minister: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhVaSWYcdyQ

If this happened in one of YOUR home cities, you guys would understand this, I think…

If it happened in Prague, for instance, I would first and foremost want the incident to be thoroughly investigated. Is there a deranged researcher from the Soviet times on a killing spree? Is it a plot of the Americans to sway the public opinion? Did the FSB really do it?

I’d like to have answers, not the government shouting: “We don’t have any evidence yet, but we are sure Putin did it!” When there is an ordinary murder and the police suspects someone but doesn’t have any evidence, they don’t start giving interviews claiming that he’s almost surely the murderer. If anything, remaining calm may help them gather more information.

My point is there is no evidence. Putin may have done it (and it wouldn’t surprise me if he did) but still they are drawing conclusions without evidence. That’s just not very professional of them. I also think they (the assassins) should use a gun, by the way. I don’t support the use of any method that can harm bystanders. So yes, I would understand your emotional point of view if this happened in my home town. Still, this whole deal strikes me as the same old procedure of throwing accusations around without first bothering with doing the investigative work. But then again maybe they need to act while the media still cares… otherwise the whole case ends up like most plane crash cases: You get lots and lots of speculations for a few days and then when the investigation is done several months later and the cause is actually known, not even the investigator’s own mother will show up on the press conference, much less the media.

@JM
“…All I am saying is that the leaders of a country of 65 million should not start accusing…”

Whether a country has 6.5 million people, 65 million, or 650 million is irrelevant in this regard, as far as I can see.

I mean, one could just as easily say that a country with a GDP smaller than Italy (i.e. Russia) shouldn’t be recklessly risking a fresh round of international sanctions - if we’re going to use “who-has-the-bigger-willy” arguments…


@HH
“…My point is there is no evidence…”

Well, c’mon, there will be evidence from highly classified sources that can’t just be put out there in the public domain!

To begin with the government of France (and, to some extent, the USA) were making skeptical noises - asking for proof, etc. But now they are also saying Russian was to blame. What changed? Maybe, just maybe, secret intelligence was shared with them, you know…?

If they can’t share the evidence then there’s no point sharing the accusations either. Sharing is caring.