EUROPANO - tu/vous, tu/usted, du/sie, etc

Conversations Forum
1

Text in progressiv europan et inglish.

Oi pessoal,

eu sou novo aqui e esse é um topico pra aprender varias línguas europeias ao mesmo tempo, um tópico onde se pode falar qualquer língua europeia. Ich werd in 5 westeuropäischen sprachen sprechen, manchmal auch in anderen, obwohl ich sie gar nicht kann. They will slowly converge into europan. Europan is a mix af al europano linguas, super izi tu spik e comprend. Paralellment je vais reforma lorthograf des langues: hay millones de maneras de se aprender la lengua scrita en la net, mas no tantas posibilidades de se aprender la lengua hablada, y una ortografia reformada normalmente muestra como es la pronunciación. Bom, e os outros podem screver como queiram…

I dachte, a tema das mig interesa würde, weren die diferenzen de lingua zu lingua, was die anreden betrifft: du/sie, tu/vous, tu/usted. In inglish der is no difrence if you spik with your boss, an elda person, a strangi or your beste frend, but most otre linguas i know of hav a diferenciacion, exept chinese. In inglish ist toujours ‘you’, in fransais et alman ist relativli rigid, in hollandais et scandinave il ai la ‘vous’, mas oni lutilis rarli. Na portugués de la mayor parte de Brasil ai ‘você’ (normalik abreviedo a ‘ce’), ke is la pronome normal, ki se utiliza na cotidiano, e ‘o Senhor/a Senhora’ cuando se abla co gente super mas vieja o co la jef. Mas lis dize ‘você’ de retorn. In Portugal und in manchen tailen des brasiliano nordestens ai sogar 3 pronom: ‘tu’ pro the amigis, ‘o senhor’ pro plus olde pople e pro la chefis, e ‘você’ pro someding inbetween. La japanis “decline” no la ‘tu’, lis decline la ‘je’, dependentli du respecto kil fo montra. In el antico tempos lis had meme 30 palabras pro ‘i’, aora lis solo utiliz una halfe docen…

Com is dise diferenses na linguas ki vu spik?

Hi folks,

i’m new here and this thred is to lern various european languages at the same time, a thred ware you can speak in any european language. I’ll speak in 5 west european languages, sometimes also in others, even if i cant speak them. They will slowly converge into europan. Europan is a mix af al europano linguas, super izi tu spik e comprend. Parallelly i’ll reform the spelling of the languages: thare ar millions of ways to lern the written language on the net, but much fewer possibilities to lern the spoken language, and a reformd orthografy usually shows the real pronunciation much better. And the others, well, they can write as they like…

I thaut that one subject i’m intrested in at the moment ar the difrences from language to language in the variations of the 2. person singular: du/sie, tu/vous, tu/usted. In inglish thare is no difrence if you speek with your boss, an elder person, a stranger or your best frend, but most other languages i know of hav a diferentiation, except chinese. In inglish it is always ‘you’, in franch and german it is rellativly rigid, in dutch and scandinavian they hav a respect pronoun, but just use them very rarely. In the portugase spoken in most parts of Brazil we usualy use ‘você’ (usualy abreeviated to ‘ce’), wich is the default pronoun, but brazilians use ‘o Senhor/a Senhora’ wen they talk to much older peeple or to the boss. Who replies with ‘você’ and not with the respect pronoun. In Portugal and in some parts of the brazilian nordeest they hav eeven 3 pronouns: ‘tu’ for the frends, ‘o senhor’ for elder peeple and for the bosses, and ‘você’ for something inbetween. The japanis dont “decline” the ‘you’, they decline the ‘I’, depending on how much respect they hav to bring to the other person, how hier the other person is in the hierarchy. In the old times they had eeven 30 words for ‘I’, now they just use haf a dozen…

How is it with thees difrences in the languages yu speek, how do they handle that?

1 Like
2

Via “eŭropana” lingvo estas tre stranga… Ĉu vi ne volas lerni kaj uzi Esperanton anstataŭ? :slight_smile:

2 Likes
3

pourcoi ‘super strange’ devrait bi plus etrange ke ‘tre stranga’? porkee ‘super mini’ debría bi mas strange ki ‘tre malgranda’? e den, europano ha non accentos, nix acusativo, e las palavras pra ‘patrino’ e ‘patro’ sao ‘mama’ e ‘papo’… ma du ist corect, i shalte lern esperanto. pro europis lu is no so isi to comprende, mas is plus isi to bin usee bai non europis, et it ha miliones spikis o halfe spikis, a literatur, plus wikipedia articles ki linguas as danish, bulgarski… lu va bin esperanto o nix! meme so: i laik inventa linguas, et esperanto is ja inventee, so i mus invent un otru…

wy ‘super strange’ should be stranger than ‘tre stranga’? wy should ‘super mini’ be stranger than 'tre malgranda? and then, europano has no accents, no acusativ, and the words for ‘patrino’ and ‘patro’ ar ‘mama’ and ‘papo’… but yu’r rite, i should lern esperanto. for europeans it is not so eesy to understand as europano, but it is eesier to be used by non europeans, and it has millions of speekers or haf-speekers, a litrature, and mor wikipedia articles than languages as danish, bulgarian… it wil be esperanto or nuthing! and eeven so: i like inventing languages, and esperanto is alredy invented, so i hav to invent sumthing else…

adiau (mi preferas skribi malghuste ol aldoni H au X… adiaux? ne…)

1 Like
4

Esperanto estas tre facile komprenebla por eŭropanoj. Certe, ĝi havas malavantaĝojn. Sed neniu estas perfekta :slight_smile:
Kaj via lingvo ne estas konsekvenca - ekzemple, ĉu oni devas uzi “pourcoi” aŭ “porkee”?

5

Mi kreas, ke tie ĉi estas posible preskaŭ ĉio :slight_smile:

6

Esperanto is plus o minu comprendable pro europis, ma minu dan europan. ‘I go tu la citi’ is plu comprendable ki ‘Mi iras en la urbon’. Ma clar, esperanto hav otre vantages, pro exemplo europan is so flexible as la medium af el europano linguas, durlik esperanto is plu flexible, co su sufixo sistem. Mas europan is no neconsecuent: na pre, i was scrive na naturale linguas ki converge tu europan, et if el originale lingua was francian, i scrivou ‘pourcoi’, et if el originale lingua was espanian, ‘porkee’. Ma wen ik arivou a la letra W, la do vordes stanau ‘wai’ - dat is la finale form.

Apropoh, in mai videos i spik in al europano linguas durli lis converge tu europan - incluziv esperanto! Et i vad uza a bit esperanto hir oso…

E com is in ukrainski? 2. personi singular, vy? 2. personi plural, oso ‘vy’? Ai no ‘ty’ as in russki? I was der na last ano, mas i pensa la majoritee spicou russki co mi…

Esperanto is mor or less understandable for europeans, but less than europan. ‘I go tu la citi’ is mor understandable than ‘Mi iras en la urbon’. Sure, esperanto has uther advantages, for example europan is as flexible as the avrage of the europano linguas, wile esperanto is mor flexible, with its suffix sistem. Mas europan is not inconsistent: in the first messages the languages wer stil evolving to europan, and if the original language was francian, i’d spel ‘pourcoi’, and if the original language was espanian, ‘porkee’. But wen i arived at the letter W, i arived at the final form, ‘wai’.

By the way, in my viddeos i speek in all european languages while they converge to europan - including esperanto! And i’l use a bit esperanto heer too…

And how is it in ukrainski? 2nd person singular, vy? 2nd person plural, vy? Is thare no ‘ty’ as in russki? I was thare last yeer, but i think most ukrainis spoke russki with me…

7

Ты and вы, the same as in Russian, Belarusian, Polish Czeck or some other slavic languages.

8

In Ukrainian this aspect is just the same as in Russian: “ty” for informal singular “you” and “vy” for formal or plural “you”.
But it’s not like that in Polish, where they have “ty” for informal singular and “wy” for INformal plural, but “pan/pani” for formal singular (m/f) & “panowie/panie/państwo” for formal plural (m/f/mixed).

9

interessant… parece que no solo google traduce todo primero al inglés e pasa todo a la lengua meta, muchos otre servicios de traduccion también lo hacen. tiam mi metis la germanajn ‘du’ e ‘Sie’, la francajn ‘tu’ e ‘Vous’, la traducado estis chiufoje ‘vy’. entao eu supone que pasa pelo inglês, e la é sempre you, alemao Sie, espaniol usted, ukrainski ‘vy’.

würdest du sagen, man gebraucht das ‘vy’ so oft wie das deutshe ‘Sie’?

hey, was that a kind of ‘russian typo’? Ты et вы nexistent pas en ukrainian, nestce pas? no es Tи и ви in ucraniano?

ENGLISH HOUSE STILE

intresting… it seems that not only google translates it all first into english and then translate from english to the gole language, other translation services do that too. then i put german ‘du’ and ‘Sie’, the franch ‘tu’ and ‘Vous’, the translation was evrytime ‘vy’. so i guess it goes thru english, and thare it is always ‘you’, german Sie, espanish usted, ukrainski ‘vy’.

would you say that ukrainians use ‘vy’ as often as germans use ‘Sie’?

hey, was that a kind of ‘russian typo’? Ты et вы nexistent pas en ukrainian, nestce pas? no es Tи и ви in ucraniano?

10

Yes, Google Translate certainly does it all through English.
Ukrainians use “vy” by default when addressing unknown people (unless they are children).
And I’m not sure, that I understood your last question correctly, but I’ll try to answer it :slight_smile: “ты” & “вы” is a Russian spelling, “ти” & “ви” - Ukrainian. Sounds almost the same.

11

палякі… sempre um pouco diferentes… wie ‘herbata’, wo jeder europäer sonst tee/tea/thé oder cha/chai sagt…

the poles… always a bit difrent… like with ‘herbata’, ware any european ses tee/tea/thé or cha/chai…

12

you had sei dat ukrainian has “ты” & “вы”… donc je suppose quil etait un “russian typo”… pensaste ucraniano, mas scribiste russo…

parenteze, chu vi diras ankau ‘vy’ en foroj?

ENGLISH HOUSE STILE

you had sed that ukrainian has “ты” & “вы”… so i suppose that it was a “russian typo”… you thaught ukrainian, but wrote in russian…

by the way, do you also use ‘vy’ in forums? as the default pronoun?

13

It was me who wrote ТЫ and ВЫ in Russian (or Belarusian). Sorry, in Ukrainian the spelling differs but sounds the same.

14

Yes, on forums or on Facebook “vy” is mostly used by default as well.

15

porquê a última mensagem la em baixo nao tem ‘reply’? ich verstee’s nich… de toute fasson, merci pour linformacion. y dime, el ucraniano no tiene las irregularidades del russo como el O que se torna A, o el E que se torna I, no? ma lu hav otra neregularitees en la ortografie? e ucraniano tem a tônica tao irregular como o russo?

wy does your message in the bottom doesnt hav a ‘reply’? i dont understand… anyway, thanks for the information. and tell me, ukrainian doesnt hav the irregularities of the russian, like O becoming A or E becoming I, isnt it? does it hav other irregularities? and does it hav an irreggular stress like russian?

16

In Ukrainian the stress is not fixed, but unlike Russian the pronunciation is very straightforward - O always sounds as O, not A, for example. But there are some interchanges of vowels in different cases, e.g. кІнь - кОня, стІл - стОлу; and interchanges of consonants, e.g. оКо - оЧі - в оЦі, ноГа - на ноЗі, and so on.

17

Creo, que exist limit de nombro de replies für mesages. Nos antworten tre multe hier.

18

ei, tain europan is no mau!

19

Your language drives me crazy! It’s too unpredictable and inconsequent - I don’t know how to decipher it!

20

eu falo muitas línguas akí… wenn du den letzten satz meinst:

i speek quite a few languages heer… if you meen the last sentence:

bi tvoi, bu tvoi, cz tvoj, da din, de dein, et teie, fr ta/ton, is thin, it tua, ju tvoj, la tavs, li tavo, mk tvoj, no din, pl twoj, po tua, ro ta, ru tvoy, sh tuaj, sk tvoj, sn tvoj, su teidän, sv din, uk tviy - europano tai-n (N only befor vowels).

‘is’ est comm inglish, nederlandish, allman… esperanto ‘estas’…
‘is’ is like in inglish, dutch, german… esperanto ‘estas’…

‘no’ es como en inglish, espaniol, italiano y mas o menos como casi todas lenguas indo-europeas. esperanto ‘ne’.
‘no’ is as in inglish, espanish, italian and mor or less as in almost all indo-european languages. esperanto ‘ne’.

‘mau’ é como em portugais, alemao, similar ao espaniol ‘malo’, franceis ‘MAUvais’, etc. esperanto ‘malbona’, ido ‘mala’.
‘mau’ is as in portugase, german, similar as espanish ‘malo’, franch ‘MAUvais’, etc. esperanto ‘malbona’, ido ‘mala’.