Trump has smacked down clinton

the democrats were totally beaten last night the republicans will probaly control the white house ,the senate ,and the house of representatives ,they totally misread the deep unpopularity of clintton they hoped the racist ,divisive rhetoric of donald trump was enough to push her over. but they also forget how tainted she was also her base of african americans ,latinos and young people did not show up for her many of them were sanders voters refused to vote i would think because trump won many places obama won and clinton should have won heavy democratic places and i do not see them voting for trump

i think the aura of being the first woman president and some misguided loyalty to the clintons went to their brains when they democrats decided to push hilary clinton so hard as their pick sanders or joe biden were better alternatives and the results might have been diferent and now it has caused them the white house and put trump on us all over the world god help us all.

“her base of african americans ,latinos and young people did not show up for her”

Yeah, and I don’t blame them.

Reasons to vote Clinton:-
1. First female president
2. Stop Trump winning

Both important things, but hardly inspirational.

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Why would voting for a female candidate be an important thing?

France has never had a female president, and only one female PM, and even if some view it as a problem, that doesn’t make voting for a candidate only because she’s a woman a valid reason to me.

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Actually, I was very much unconvinced by this reason too. I think it would be a good thing for there to be a female president, or at least for there to have been a female president. This would change how we perceive women in leadership positions. However, I think there is also a danger that this change would be a negative one if the first female president was terrible.

france and america are two diferent countries my friend they have diferent ways of thinking historically

In my humble opinion this is best done the British way: forget whether a person is male or female, instead just choose the best person for the job. That way you just naturally get female leaders of the outstanding calibre of Margaret Thatcher or Theresa May! :slight_smile:

I didn’t know it was a problem in the UK too as you have the Queen, Thatcher or now May. It is most certainly in France yet candidates who present themselves as women, ie in the sense “I should be elected because I am a women”, are rejected because people are opposed to things like affirmative action or racial quotas. I haven’t followed the American election closely but maybe that’s one more reason Clinton lost?

As you said yourself if, instead of giving good economical or social reasons why people should vote for her, she was only offering the fact that she would be the first female president and that Trump was a bad guy, it’s no wonder lots of people didn’t bother to vote. And the problem with high abstention is that it always advantages the candidate who manages to stimulate their fans, often with radical views. That’s why Sarkozy is praying for a low voter turnout in this month’s primary elections here. :wink:

I also think it could be a danger if the first female president or PM in parliamentary regimes was terrible. I’m not sure change has to come from the top. Even though symbols are important, they have to come at the right time.

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They are indeed! I think Europe in general doesn’t realize how different the US are. That’s why I’m very interested in this forum’s threads that are related with the US. There were some very interesting threads on firearms in the past that made me see some Americans had totally different ways of thinking.

I’m not so sure there’s such a big difference, Front National, UKip, Trump seem to me to very much the same kind of phenomenon and a rather old, recurring one as well

I wasn’t talking specifically about the elections or populism in general. To me Front National and Trump are quite different even if those who vote for them share similar characteristics. You don’t find many people in favor of firearms, against the State or against healthcare in France. The views of many Americans about these questions are radically different from those of most Europeans I think.

Front National doesn’t insult women or other groups, doesn’t brag about not paying taxes or about being rich. Actually, FN is becoming more and more “reasonable” to try to be accepted by a larger part of the French people. They’re even removing their historical symbols in an attempt to polish their image.

The equivalent of Trump’s campaign would be Sarkozy’s campaign, who has always admired the US and has borrowed a lot from the US about how to do politics. But even he only does it because it’s a primary election and the odds are against him, else he wouldn’t be so violent.

Looks like Clinton won the popular vote. Just another data point showing the electoral college should be eliminated or at least fixed.

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It was fine when Obama won but now it’s a bad system because you don’t like the result?

No system is perfect. I don’t particularly like our PM here, who got a strong majority of the seats with only 39,5% of the popular vote. However, being a good loser and respecting the system is what democracy is all about.

But Obama won the popular vote both times.

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For your information, I voted for Stein. If you’re going to be rude to someone, at least have the courtesy not to jump to conclusions.

The electoral college is a joke. The reason it was invented is obsolete. The whole argument that it’s a good way to keep highly populated areas from having too much influence is ridiculous; that’s not why it was created. One person, one vote - that’s what democracy is all about.

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The liberal media (which = pretty much the msm in US) is also out in force with this meme this morning.

But, not too much mentioning, from the left, that Clinton would have easily lost the popular vote to Trump, with preferential voting - which is, far and away, the best way to run a popular vote when less than 50%. It wouldn’t have even been close.

But let’s not stop the “my brand of democracy that chooses my preferred candidate is the best brand” discussion.

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