Hi all 
I’m enjoying these discussions and I’m excited to hear more about your approaches to language learning. Perhaps you will find my latest blog an interesting starting point? Thank you for reading
https://www.joshdtutoring.com/post/the-subjective-nature-of-language-learning
Whilst I agree with your blog post, I will argue one minor point. You refer to rote learning grammar tables as learning grammar in the traditional sense.
The only method I know of that entails rote learning grammar tables is the grammar translation method, which was popular quite a long time ago, and used originally for dead languages such as Latin. It was not intended as a way to learn to speak a language, but aimed to facilitate reading and writing. I doubt anyone in the English speaking world has promoted that approach for many decades, if not longer.
Yes, I agree, use whatever floats your linguistic boat. I know of one talented polyglot who rote learns grammar tables. It saves him looking up the grammar while learning the language, and gradually he learns the grammar naturally. I find learning verb conjugations useful.
On the topic of studying grammar, I have made myself quite clear. I don’t study grammar, not in the traditional sense anyway. In my view the traditional sense entails reading a course book or attempting to memorise rules from tables.
Explain in detail about your learning approach as a learner. How do you make language texts comprehensible to understand if you do not study grammar at all in the beginning stage of learning?
Just take me as a case study. I would like to study Spanish without studying grammar. My level is null in all four skills such as reading, listening, writing and speaking. I am giving myself at least a year and will be studying every day.
Based on your learning approach, how exactly should I approach Spanish learning?
As a side note, there are textbooks that come with short reading texts that specificality contain that particular grammar rule that we are dealing with at the moment. That had been the case with German textbooks which were used by German teachers in a German language school.
An experienced teacher can clear a grammar point clearly without having a student goes through pages after pages on their own. Teaching methodologies have changed quite a lot since Krashen’s times and teachers these days encourage students to get exposure to different inputs(podcasts, youtube videos, etc) out of the class.
Thanks for your comment
I am happy to go into depth as to how I would approach any language from scratch.
I will also upload a video later today as I think I can better explain my approach in this way.
What I would recommend is that you begin by using LingQs beginner guided courses. Read the text alongside the audio and notice what you see.
For example, when you see “yo” (I), take a look at the following verb. For example, “yo hablo”, “yo vivo” etc. The same with “tu bebes”…
There you have started to notice patterns without explicitly trying the find the grammar in a book. In this case, the suffix ‘o’ is common with ‘yo’.
Take the same approach with adjective placement, time adverbials etc. You can identify the patterns just by using the text you have before you.
I will outline a more in depth explanation in my video later today
Thanks for your reply. That will be a great help to other language learners as well.
Hello, can you add Turkish subtitles to your video on YouTube if possible? I am very curious about what you are talking about. Steve Kaufmann also says in his videos to not study grammar and try to notice the structures. You say the same thing. So how can I notice a structure that I don’t know? And doesn’t it require good grammar knowledge in our native language to be able to notice grammatical structures? Can someone with no grammar knowledge notice these structures?
Hello! Thank you for taking the time to watch my video.
I have now added ‘auto-translations’ to the video. Hopefully the Turkish works well.
I would say that by noticing patterns in language (grammar) you don’t have to have a great understanding of your own native grammar. Most native English speakers do not have a perfect understanding of the grammar. However, I am sure that a native could identify basic patterns in their own language, as well as in a foreign language. For example, the -ed ending in past tense verbs in English. A learner could then identify endings in their L2.
If you are learning your first foreign language, it may take some time and reflection on your native language before you get used to noticing patterns but it shouldn’t take too long.
I remember a teacher once said to me, English teachers (TESOL teachers) don’t need to have a perfect understanding of everything. A teacher doesn’t have to be a linguist.
In my opinion, some people have the wrong concept about Krashen’s hypothesis like if you’re just immerse yourself enough in context that interest you, somehow you will reach the fluency. But most people are forgetting , from my view, the key issue of krashen’s approach: comprehensible input. If you don’t getting words, sentences and dialogues during the studies sessions, the things will be very difficult to happen.
Thank you for adding Turkish. What I am looking for in terms of grammar is not to study grammar like crazy. I just looked for a very simplified and shortened version of grammar but frankly I couldn’t find such a study. In other words, a study that explains only the necessary parts of a 300-page grammar book in 10 pages. Or better yet, I want a method that makes it easier to understand grammar and grammar in all languages without studying grammar like you. Whatever you are doing is exactly what I am looking for.
I did research for a year before I bought LingQ and started studying English. I watched hundreds of videos. I read hundreds of articles, texts, and reviews. Yes, I know what Stephen Krashen and Steve Kaufmann and others say. But I think it is useful to understand some grammar. Because it really makes reading easier. Otherwise, what I read remains incomplete. So I feel like there is no comprehensible input. It also kills my motivation and morale.
I think you’re right about the point to take some grammar during your language learning journey. But, what I want to say is how can we get the meaning of structures , present/future/past or whatever if we can’t understand even a word or a sentence? Study grammar is important to me. But, as long as you study other fundamentals principles like reading and listening together. It looks like a 90 / 10 rule: 90% study reading, listening and reading + listening ( you know, listening a text and reading the transcript) and 10% of your available time focusing on grammar.
To give you my analogy when it comes to studying Grammar. I read Grammar as a manual that comes with an electronic device. I read the instructions and see it work in real time. It is mentally less tiring. However, I can try to figure it out without referring to grammar guide I may or may not figure it out 100%. I do not study grammar like solving exercises the way it is done in a textbook.
With ChatGPT and Deepseek my job is even easier I can easily create examples with a particular grammar point and import the text into LingQ.
Yes, you are absolutely right. I try to do that too. I also have attention deficit disorder (ADHD). I have had difficulty in everything throughout my life. I cannot fully grasp grammar even if I want to. The learning process works differently for me. Therefore, I try to learn grammar intuitively and sometimes little by little but consciously in a way that supports intuitive learning. As a result, when someone says things like “don’t study grammar, if you do it this way, you can learn grammar”, it really interests me.
Yeah, that’s the point!! By the way, there is not only way to learning languages. Steve Kauffman spoke about it in a video in youtube. Generally, the idea is: you will feel that some tool or way to acquire languages works if you’re enjoying the process. For example, if you think Anki cards / SRS repetition works, probably you just having fun doing those things.
Perfect. When it comes to study grammar in English, I actually do almost the same. ChatGPT , from my view, is an outstanding tool to learning grammar. I Like to ask some examples with grammar applied.