Tell us what frustrates you about Korean at Lingq?

I am Intermediate II and I am close to advanced

Great! Constantine, the LingQ staff member who created this thread may see this soon and reach out to you. But to make things easier for him, you could also go to the ‘Community’ :arrow_forward:︎ ‘Contribute’ page. There is a ‘Become a Librarian’ button, a link to reach a staff member who can give you privileges.

Well put. Using the Hanja as a memory booster does not work backward. Instead, it complements how we learn other elements in the language, such as grammatical structures, as you have mentioned.

It works backward only if one expects to acquire the new Sino-Korean vocabulary with little effort by learning a few hundred Chinese characters without context at the beginner’s level. I recommend learning a particular Hanja on a needed basis with Sino-Korean words in the context than deliberately learning Hanja in the first place to recognize unknown Sino-Korean words. It certainly causes massive diversion and confusion in the beginner’s learning routine.

The best practice is to have toggleable Chinese characters on the top of Korean text with a superscript in number corresponding to a different meaning of the word on Krdict or a built-in library for Hanja at Lingq. A tag with the definition entry or combining it with the definition may not allow the user to see the whole picture without deliberately clicking the words. Chinese characters work well to clarify the meaning of Sino-Korean words with at least two Chinese characters. I don’t see difficulties implementing such a feature, though I am open to the Lingq team’s and experienced users’ concerns. Due to the problem with the multiple characters corresponding to single Sino-Korean words or numerous definitions related to a single Chinese character, we can at least do this by brute force and limit it to the guide courses if not possible by programming. One good thing is that we can ensure it is in context if implemented by brute force.

Ps. I have completed more or less 100 episodes of the TTMIK Iyagi course, and I am on the second pass to nail down more grammatical structures and unknown words before tackling new lessons and moving on to my first TV series on Netflix. Strongly recommended!

I thought of an alternative by putting the latest AI Chatgpt into the service, and the result was a mixture.

Please identify all Sino-Korean words by the highlight.

안녕하세요, 잘 지내시나요? LingQ에 오신 것을 환영합니다. 이름이 무엇인가요? 언어를 배우고 싶으시군요. 좋습니다. LingQ에서 배우게 됩니다. 새로운 단어들을 많이 배우게 됩니다. 새로운 언어를 이해하는 것을 먼저 배우게 됩니다. 문법은 배우지 않습니다. 언어를 즐기는 방법을 배우게 됩니다. 이것은 새로운 언어를 배우는 가장 좋은 방법입니다. 새로운 언어로 말을 하고 싶다면 이것이 첫번째 관문입니다.

The Sino-Korean words in the text are:
안녕하세요 (安寧하세요): hello
이름 (姓名): name
언어 (言語): language
배우다 (學う): to learn
단어 (單語): word
이해하다 (理解する): to understand
문법 (文法): grammar
즐기다 (享受する): to enjoy
방법 (方法): method
관문 (關門): gateway, entrance.

The ones in bold are valid ones.

문법 (文法): grammar

문 1 (文) : arts
-문 (文) : A suffix used to mean a piece of writing.
문 : it can also be stationary in its short form vs. 문구.
문갑 : stationery chest: A long piece of furniture, low in height and used to store documents, stationery, etc.

법 1 : law; act
법 2 : way, method, rule,

It’s more intuitive to associate the related Chinese characters with the Sino-Korean words than deduce the true meaning of an unknown word. I am keen to hear the logic of how we derive the actual definition in “grammar” instead of 서법 (書法): calligraphy; penmanship.

관문 (關門): gateway, entrance.
A part or place which must be passed by to reach a certain place.

A learner not knowing Asian languages would rush to derive the literal meaning of “Closed door.” 관: 關 has more to do with the context of passing security checkpoints or levels in a video game. 세관 (稅關): has the literary meaning of checkpoint of tariff for customs at airports, harbor, etc. Unfortunately, this inferred definition is not even available at Krdict.

Following is a proposal for introducing Chinese characters to the text by brute force. The sheer amount of work is too much when we do not consider our crowd-contribution approach at Lingq.

  1. We collaborate in a shared workspace, and the Lingq team will incorporate the final work upon review.
  2. Identify all Sino-Korean words in the text.
  3. Provide accurate Chinese characters by consulting a dictionary.
  4. A native speaker to double-check the accuracy.
  5. A Librarian at Lingq to raise any questions in doubt, and the final result will be desirable if not perfect.

@llearner
I always enjoy hearing your thoughts about Sino-Korean words. Not sure if LingQ or anyone else has the time to do what you propose, but sometimes it’s good to have ideas simmering in the back of your mind for a while.

@ Ilearner chatgpt the sino words include

안녕하세요 安寧
환영합니다 歡迎
언어 言語
단어 單語
이해하는 理解
문법 文法
방법 方法
관문 關門

when I flashcard them since I learned all the hanja purely through korean it helps me a ton either forwards or backwards. If I learn this word 환영합니다 with the characters if I want to go back and formally study 歡 or 迎 it becomes very easy because they look familiar and I already have a connection and the pronunciation in my head. There is realistically only 1200-1500 (vocab building) useful hanja in korean for vocab building and like 2500 (hardcore) for mixed script reading etc.

@Tamarind

Actually I did some quick research on the topic and found out the Hanja were completely banned from Korean Elementary schoolbooks in 1970. They’re discussing lately whether to integrate them again but opponents criticize that it’s only due to the lobby of the private education industry who want to push their Hanja-drill-schools and there’s no need to undo the ban, since literacy among teenagers in Korea ranges highest in the world, so why increase the workload of Elementary School students unnecessarily?

I tried to find out if there was comprehensive learning material with Hanja transcript in Japan but there were only textbooks teaching the Sino-Korean words, comparing them to the Sino-Japanese ones, one by one.
So I was wrong to assume that books with Hanja transcript were a regular genre in Japan. Apparently no one seems to feel the need, even in countries where they use Chinese characters. Is there some fundamental problem that I have overlooked? (Apart from Korea not wanting the Hanja to be in use again?)

Still, it doesn’t have to be a bad method just because no one is using it. (Especially with language learning we are seeing lots of ineffective and demotivating methods in practice just because "we’ve always done it that way“.)

Done :ballot_box_with_check:

@llearner

I like how you describe the new feature, it sounds exactly like what I was dreaming of :wink:
I could imagine, if LingQ decided this was a good way to attract more learners with a Hanzi/Kanji background, then they might put some effort and money into it. Of course it could also be done by “the cloud” but I have the strange feeling that the “cloud” that’s inclined to do such a nerdy and time consuming task will consist of 2 to 3 people at the most – me being one of them? (What have I done!)
I’m happy to contribute in a slow but steady way, though.

The timing does make sense. Older adults who grew up reading books and newspapers with Hanja probably started to become outnumbered by young adults who grew up reading Hanja free in the 90’s. I imagine that publishers made the switch when it became more profitable to cater to younger readers.

  • :arrow_right:︎ Is there some fundamental problem that I have overlooked?
    Perhaps technology? It’s easier and faster to type with the Korean alphabet alone. Starting in the late 1980’s typing started to become a requirement for everyone, not just secretaries or professional writers. Mobile phone texting started in the late 1990’s or early aughts. All easier Hanja free.

:arrow_right:︎ Is there some fundamental problem that I have overlooked?

Native Asian speakers have a perfect mastery of the pronunciation and writing system in the language as everyone else in their native language. They also have developed a good sense of language along with early formation in elementary school, enabling them to infer the meaning of new words more intuitively from shared stems and contextual clues without relying on Chinese characters. Koreans have used Chinese characters to clarify the ambiguity among common names, such as on a driver’s license.

@ Hagowingchun
This approach could be an excellent way to go for you. You will find Chinese characters more helpful as you progress in the language, like making neural connections among words instead of cells. One of the pitfalls to watch for is the multiple meaning of a single Chinese character, and I have elucidated with the example 관문 關門.

@ Sasuem
To implement a feature like this, Lingq would have to allow Librarians to customize an additional form of input on the top of the text and allow users to report but not modify the errors directly from the sentence with related issues. We can even use it to make annotations for those interested in reading Shakespearean works.

Nonetheless, the Lingq team prioritize their solution to existing issues with the website’s basic functionality between different Os, devices, browsers, etc. Besides, the chaos caused by this direct reporting feature is enormous. Adding Chinese characters will be the last straw in addition to reporting problems related to Pinyin, errors in text, time stamps, translation, etc., not only in Lingq shared contents but everything.

I have prompted myself to make correction suggestions for the Lingq story in Cantonese. I would have to make an extra effort after completing the first ten lessons because other things mandate extra exertion.

The best way could be to import content related to the usage of Chinese characters and search the dictionary for entries related to Chinese characters with sample sentences in the meantime.

Thank you for a thorough answer.
I am afraid only content creators can edit their audios.
I’ll see what we can do about adding hanja.

…Just imagine Japanese being only written in Hiragana. A nightmare! And this nightmare is Korean…
So true.

Great idea. We lack librarians in Korean.

Hi, I’m intermediate 2 in Korean, I m fluent in several languages, this app ( the best from what I‘ve tried so far and the more intuitive) helps keeping my brain less bored, learn much faster and acquire new ones. learning languages is my hobby, addictive :slight_smile:
as for Korean sometimes the translation doesn’t seem appropriate to the context at least. I would like to see short explanation of the suffixes used especially those that nuance the meaning. thanks

We could have imagined how worst Korean phonetic writing would become if we removed some of the consonants and vowels from the Hangul—learning Korean in classic Chinese with no good representation of the actual pronunciation of spoken Korean before King Sejong would be a nightmare for any learner. Chinese characters as reference tools are perfect for learning modern Korean with a phonetic Hangul-based writing system.

@ llearner

  • :arrow_right:︎ Chinese characters as reference tools are perfect for learning modern Korean with a phonetic Hangul-based writing system.
    And such a cool way to study etymology — at least for Sino-Korean words.

P.S. This thread has gotten so long that I’m reply-posting at the top. This forum becomes impossible when there are multiple replies on top of replies.

:arrow_right:︎ And Steve’s example shows that there IS material out there with Hanja transcript.

Perhaps Steve was referring to ISBN 0-295-96018-3.
Title: A First Reader in Korean Writing in Mixed Script
Author: Fred Lukoff

Currently the 7,822,112th most popular book on amazon.com.

This is a book for those who know English and want to read intermediate level Korean including Hanja. The book was published by Yonsei University Press and printed in the Republic of Korea. It has 300 pages and covers about 1180 Hanja. Included are indices of these 1180 Hanja ordered by sound and by radical.

My copy is copyright 1982, printed in 1986. Due to laziness or overenthusiastic book buying, I have not yet taught myself the material covered by this book. I’ll get around to it someday.

Wouldn’t you know it? There’s even a lengthy Wikipedia entry about Korean mixed script.