Some RSS feeds for collections are empty

Support & Feedback Forum
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Hi!

I was trying to get back into learning German on lingQ and found that some of the RSS feeds have no entries in them. In a feed reader they load but have no entries. Podcasting software says there are no episodes available.

Meine Tochter und ich Meine Tochter und ich - LingQ Language Library

Has no episodes in the RSS feed. I had it from before in my podcast software and it has 11 episodes there but now I see that there are 12.

Max und Moritz (Wilhelm Busch) Max und Moritz (Wilhelm Busch) - LingQ Language Library

is another that the RSS feed does not work on.

Does anyone else have empty feeds for these 2 with no episodes?

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Hi Frederick,

the provider can decide if he allows LingQ to show the content on other websites as well (for example “TheLinguist”, the old LingQ website). If providers do this the RSS don’t work.
I decided to show my content only on LingQ for two reasons:

  • If people download podcasts via RSS, it is not counted as “used”. In this case content providers “earn” no points.
  • Main reason: It gives me the feeling to have more control over my content. I don’t want to find it in iTunes etc. I created my material exclusivly for LingQ and its members. Other podcasters gave me permission especially to share their podcasts on LingQ.

That is the reason that there are no episodes of “Meine Tochter und ich” in the RSS feed. I’m glad that LingQ respects my descision to have my materials available on LingQ only.

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Hi Veral!

I understand your side of things and why you disable the RSS feeds and I sympathize with you.

However think that LingQ should fix the problem so that RSS feed downloads count. I have no idea why they would not as they are stored on what appears to be a LingQ server. Here is an example url from a RSS feed:

And here is the url for the same lesson from the page the lesson is on when you click on the download link:

So, my question is this Veral do you also not get credit if I download the file and do not listen on the LingQ site?

The reason I ask is RSS feed, iTunes feed or download they all point me to download the file from the same place. It is very easy to count the number of downloads a file gets from a webserver so, I really do not understand why the system is not setup so that you get credits for each download from the website.

In really I like being able to download a series of lesson all at once, so if the RSS feed is disabled the RSS feed link should be replaced with a link to download all the episodes. Not sure how this would work exactly in practice as normally one click = one download unless you were to make an archive file (.zip file or such) of all the audio files but that gets messy as every time a new lesson gets added a new file needs to be added to the archive. It also means that more storage space is needed on the website.

Yuck, RSS is sounding really good right now.

At the very least the RSS link should disappear if the content provider has disabled it.

Veral, If LingQ were to give you credit for downloads via the RSS feed would you be willing to allow your material to have a RSS feed?

I would understand if you still do not want the feed listed on iTunes, but if they gave you credit for downloads of the files then I am not sure why you would not want your content podcasts listed in podcast directories like iTunes.

It also gives LingQ “free” advertising when someone finds the podcast and comes to visit the site.

I am sorry but I from my perspective, in the current situation that the LingQ content providers do not get credit for downloads of their content, LingQ is missing a big opportunity for letting other people find out about LingQ via other podcast directories. iTunes is probably the most well known but there are many others as well.

I am sure that Veral is not the only content provider that has figure this out and turned off RSS feeds and that is too sad for those of us that enjoy the ease of using podcast software to download content.

Thanks Veral for your reply and all the good content you have worked on.

Greetings!

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Weird, I wonder how the spaces got it the urls. Just copied and pasted. Any ways the point is they are the same.

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Weird, I wonder how the spaces got it the urls. Just copied and pasted. Any ways the point is they are the same.

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The primary motivation behind this decision is not one of compensation but of respecting the content provider’s desire to keep their content only on LingQ, thereby allowing them to remove it from public access quickly and easily.

RSS feeds are, by nature, accessible from outside the login, so in this regard we allow content providers to decide whether their content will be published publicly on the internet via RSS feeds or simply within LingQ’s website.

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Actually, usage of content has no relation to audio downloads and we have no intention of tracking this. The idea of usage is that we measure how often a lesson, which includes both audio and text, is taken by a user. The audio on its own is not a lesson and can come from both internal and external sources. Obviously, external sources are not trackable by us. Vera’s concern about “not getting credit” for RSS downloads is not valid in my opinion since only the audio is downloaded through RSS. Audio downloads do not equal usage. As Frederickjh says, the idea behind the RSS is that it is much more convenient to download all the audio using an RSS feed than by individually downloading each audio file. Also, by subscribing to the RSS feed you will instantly see when a new lesson is added so you can go to LingQ and study it. (Which solves another of Vera’s problems from another thread)

In fact, the RSS feed and posting it in iTunes are both very good things to do from the perspective of promotion and convenience and are only there to help the provider make their offering better. However, there are times when RSS and iTunes need to be restricted. For instance, when a podcast that is already on iTunes or available elsewhere has consented to be put up on LingQ behind the login but doesn’t want to be available for download outside the login since this would compete with the original podcast for traffic.

For the most part, I don’t see any reason for users to not allow RSS feeds. But, of course, it is up to the provider to do as they feel.

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Ok, I think I understand the situation better now. However, RSS feeds can be made private using HTTPS/SSL and HTTP Auth.

Do a google for “password protecting an rss feed” for how to do this. The most helpful link I found was:

http://labs.silverorange.com/archive/2003/july/privaterss

They even provide test feeds for you to test your feed reader with.

It basically amounts to password protecting the audio files and the feed file (feedname.xml) with the normal systems you use on any website to password protect files.

So, I think it would be better if the content providers could instead of turning RSS off, make it private. Every LingQ user already has a user name and password that could be used to acces the private RSS feeds.

I believe that this would also keep the RSS feed out of directories, such as iTunes as they could not access it to list episodes and such.

This could be the solution that would give the LingQ users back a RSS feed to download collection but honor the content providers choice to have content only be accessible by the LingQ users.

So, if I understand you correctly mark, no credit is given for downloading the audio files at all, whether that be from the page for the lesson or from a RSS feed? Is credit given when I say I have listen to it X number of times? How does this work?

Also, mark are you saying that not all audio is stored on the LingQ servers when you refer to external sources?

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Well, I must say I find it a bit disappointing that I got no response after researching this. I still think there should be another way to download a collection from the collection page if the RSS feed is empty and the RSS feed should not show up if it is empty.

I consider an RSS icon with empty feed for a collection when there episodes in it false advertising.

Is it also possible to make a way to search the library for only collection that allow RSS feeds?

I find it rather disappointing that two of the major German content providers have decided to disable the RSS feeds, but that decision seems to fit with the German culture on privacy.

I would also like to hear back from the content providers like Veral that think that they some how get more credit by disabling the RSS feeds.

From what I know iTunes and all the other Podcasting directories will only allow you to list your own podcasts. From what I have seen they all have a policy to remove podcast from the directory if they were not add by the owner and they do not want them there.

I am guessing the people that are blocking RSS feeds of their provided content have never use podcasting software nor do they understand how a RSS feed functions.

I guess when I have exhausted the German content with RSS feed I will look for an easier way to download the non-rss feed content. But for now I have a way to go before that happens.

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Sorry Frederick, I was busy (creating new lessons and other things), and I simply forgot this thread. Additional I thought I’ve made my point, and I don’t want to get to deep in this discussion (because I’m very busy :slight_smile:

You asked: “Veral, If LingQ were to give you credit for downloads via the RSS feed would you be willing to allow your material to have a RSS feed?”
My answer: Maybe. I’m not sure. For me privacy is really important, and I had to overcome a lot of shyness and other concerns before I created and published my first lesson for LingQ. What made me feel saver was that the lessons are only available on LingQ. This gives me the feeling of having some kind of control.

As soon as there is an RSS feed people will be able to add it to other podcast directories that you can find on the internet. It’s not only iTunes. There are lots of it. You cannot prevent people from doing this. Do you have an idea how many of them exists? You have no control simply because of the number and simply because people don’t respect properties. Personally, I feel uncomfortable with RSS feeds for my content.

“At the very least the RSS link should disappear if the content provider has disabled it.”
I agree.

“I am sorry but I from my perspective, in the current situation that the LingQ content providers do not get credit for downloads of their content, LingQ is missing a big opportunity for letting other people find out about LingQ via other podcast directories.”
The intention of the RSS feed was exactly what you describe. But LingQ let the content provider decide because the content provider is the owner. And this is more than fair. I’m really glad that LingQ respects the ownership! If I would loose the control I would no longer provide my content on LingQ. I would move it to my website or blog. It’s MY content and be assured that I put a lot of work into it. I think you cannot imagine how many hours I spend creating all these lessons. I can guess that for some content provider the argument of getting no credit for downloads can be an argument. I’m not sure. I think it is not fair and this topic was discussed earlier on the forum, but this is not my main argument.

“So, if I understand you correctly mark, no credit is given for downloading the audio files at all, whether that be from the page for the lesson or from a RSS feed? Is credit given when I say I have listen to it X number of times? How does this work?”
Yes, no credit is given for downloading the audio files via RSS feed. You have to “take” a lesson that credit is given. The lesson counts only one time. This doesn’t depend on the number of times you’ve listened to the lessons.

“I am guessing the people that are blocking RSS feeds of their provided content have never use podcasting software nor do they understand how a RSS feed functions.” Sure, I’ve used it and I still use RSS feeds. I know how convenient they are. The providers of these podcasts decided to go public. I decided not to go public. This makes the difference.

“I guess when I have exhausted the German content with RSS feed I will look for an easier way to download the non-rss feed content. But for now I have a way to go before that happens.”
This decision belongs to you. If you think the podcasts are not worth to download them via the lesson page, you should look for other resources on the internet. To find “tricky” ways to download the audios without RSS feed and not from the lesson page make me feel that you don’t appreciate and respect the work I’ve put in.

Please consider that I don’t create these podcasts for earning money. I do it to help users on LingQ because I think LingQ is a great website. When I started on LingQ there wasn’t a lot German content and so I wanted to improve the library to make it better.

Sorry for the long post.

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Thanks for the post Veral. I think that you have stated your point well and I don’t want to make a long discussion on this either but I do want to ask for your opinion on this and other content providers that block the RSS feeds.

If LingQ were to offer instead blocking the RSS feed a password protect the RSS feed would you feel comfortable with that? You can do this is the same way that you password protect any file on a web server.

Everyone that logs into LingQ has a username and password that could be used for accessing these password protected feeds.

A RSS feed, in the podcast sense, is only a special web file that contains a list of links to the actual files that get downloaded.

Since neither the RSS feed (podcast file) nor the audio files have been password protected, your audio files are still not really safe.

What you have now is security by hiding the location a bit (behind a LingQ login), but anyone that signs up for a free LingQ account can see the location of those files and could, in theory post the location of these file anywhere they want on the web or even create a podcast file to access them.

Veral, I do very much appreciate your work. In fact I started some time ago on LingQ to learn German and some of your lessons(Meine Tochter und ich) were some of the first that I downloaded via RSS feed before it got turned off.

I am not looking for “tricky” ways to download the files. You make it sound like I am doing something illegal with that wording in English. I just want an automated way to download a collection to my mp3 player with out having to click dozens of times to do it. I have a pretty good understanding of German now and need to increase my vocabulary. I listen to the lesson on the mp3 player a number of times. After having listen to them I start to develop ideas of what unknown words may mean. Then I go to LingQ and start linging and learn even more.

I would be downloading the mp3 from the lesson page in any case as at this point it is the only place that the urls to the mp3 are located. Instead of having to scroll around the page, I can in the Opera web browser select the links sidebar then search for “.mp3” this then presents me with all the links to the mp3 files on the lesson page that is showing, but I still need to click each one, tell it where to save it. I then still need to move it to my mp3 player. It is a lot of repetition and time that would be better spent linging when I could just use the podcasting software to do it all.

Thanks again for having an open ear and mind to discuss these ideas.

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@frederickjh - I can understand your frustration at not being able to download your desired files by rss but, in this case, you are going to have to respect Vera’s decision to not publish her files this way. We are also unlikely to implement a password protected rss access anytime soon, since for the most part and for most people the rss system is fine the way it is. Also, password protection does not work well with many rss readers and would still not affect Vera’s decision. Yes, the rss feed link should not appear for unshared collections. We will look into hiding it.

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mark - I am trying to respect Vera’s decision and keep the files for LingQ users only with my suggestion of a private RSS feeds for collection. Trying to have my cake and eat it too. :wink: I’m not sure I am frustrated, more bothered that some thing that worked so well has been taken away mostly by what seems to be a mistrust of technology.

Password protecting the RSS feed and possibly also the audio files actually offers content providers even more security. As it is now anyone can copy the web address for mp3 files while they are logged into LingQ and post them on another website, even making a podcast file for them. This is trivial to do and considering that anyone can sign up for a free LingQ account anyone can do it.

So although the RSS feed is no more for a collection and it is not easy for someone to swipe a whole collection in seconds the audio files are in no way protected from outsiders downloading them. Let me know if you would like a demonstration. I can make a webpage up to demonstrate that it can be done, but I would prefer to not post the url for it here in the forums.

Password protection works with RSS readers this is not the problem. If you password protect the feed’s .xml file on your web server no one will not be able to access it without a username and password. However older RSS readers/Podcasting software, some of which are no longer being developed, have no way for a user to specify a username and password. This is the main problem, however people have a choice in what they use for a RSS reader and can choose to use another one that does work for their purposes.

I guess if I am the only one saying anything about the RSS feeds that are empty then it should not go to high up on the list, but I would be just happy if it actually makes it on a list.

The good news is I have found a half decent way to download a page (10 lessons at a time) of a collection, since there is no way that I can figure out to change the settings on LingQ to display all the files in a collection that has more than 10 lessons on one page.

@mark - Can a setting to allow all lessons in a collection be displayed at one time added to the users settings or can a drop down selector be adde to the lesson collection pages that allow selecting from displaying 10, 25, 50 or 100 lessons on a page?

A Quicker Way to Download Collections without a RSS feed:

Log in to LingQ as normal and go to the lesson collection that you want to download using the Opera web browser.

On the left-hand side of the Opera web browser is a panel. Mouse over the icons and find the “Links” panel. If you do not have it on your panel menu click on the plus(+) at the bottom of the menu and tick the box by “Links”, then OK and after that the Links icon.

Now you should see a big list of links in the lesson collection page you are viewing. At the top of the Links panel is a “Quick find” box. Type “.mp3” in it. If you have open a page with 10 lesson you will see 10 links to the mp3 files for these lessons.

Next hold down the Shift key and click the top link. Still holding the Shift key click the bottom link to select all the mp3 files. Click the Save icon at the top of the Links panel and select the folder to download the files to. Repeat this for each page of the collection to download all the mp3 files.

I hope these instructions help someone else wanting to save time in downloading an entire collection without a RSS feed.

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@frederick - Interesting ideas. Why not add them to our page on Get Satisfaction (http://getsatisfaction.com/lingq) so other members can give input on them as well? If they gain enough popularity we will consider spending the time to implement them.

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