Seriously trying to understand the US-American concept of freedom

“Very short!”

well…you´re probably a man. I read in a top-secret CIA paper that most short-haired people who are attracted to women are men.

"In German, however, “schwul” is only used for men. "

There are exceptions (or maybe not?)

“…I read in a top-secret CIA paper that most short-haired people who are attracted to women are men…”

How about if they have no hair? (Clugston z.B.)

Gute Frage! Nächste Frage…

Edit

:slight_smile:

ad Paul: (…) …"In German, however, “schwul” is only used for men. "

There are exceptions (or maybe not?)

(…)

Haha, I had never heard that before, honestly. Well, I shouldn’t be too surprised, though, since nowadays even your T-shirt or your computer can be “schwul” :wink:

I liked the rhythm of the song. Apart from that song, would you or do other young people actually use “schwul” for women as well?

I really think it would be great if you uploaded some lessons. I obviously can learn a lot from you too :slight_smile:

ad Jay: I’m curious to know what you edited? :wink:

I don’t believe that people should be punished for not believing in God ( I am talking of course about this life ).I just wanted to say that if there really is such a thing as freedom of speech , I believe that anyone could say anything as long as they don’t incite to violence.

But I want to know (out of curiosity ) why are there people denying the Holocaust which took place in Europe ( strangely no one is accusing anyone for the Holocaust which took place in Palestine in order to make way for the ‘chosen ones’) and there isn’t anyone for example denying the deaths of 20 million Russians in Russia ?

@Colin: Yes indeed people should not engage in unnecessary violence if someone burns their Holy Book but still this is a horrible act that should be punished somehow.

If a school is run as a private school, thus basically operating as a private business, would it be possible in the US for a school to say that it does not allow any Jews or Muslims?

To my knowledge that’s the case. I follow the http://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks channel and they often discuss these sorts of issues.

I know for certain that a similarly discriminatory law “based on religious beliefs” would never hold up in Austria

And what does it look like in real life?

Since you’ve mentioned the privates and that is also what the article is about…
despite of the Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz it’s a wide-spread practice in Germany that many Wohnheime just rent out rooms only for students of certain confessions. For instance, what you would typically see here in Münster is “just for male Catholics”.

I think you can find all kind of people denying all kind of things.

Lobbies make the difference when it comes to make laws. It’s illegal to deny the Holocaust in some European countries (including France, but that’s no wonder) and possibly elsewhere to please the Jewish community.

A few months ago in France they banned a gesture invented by a comedian - Dieudonné - because he is said to be an Anti-Semite. Should we ban any gesture made by alledged Anti-Semite? I’ve never seen any of his shows but he apparently mock the Holocaust, amongst other things. Still, I don’t think his shows should be cancelled. Very few people are still interested in denying the Holocaust here, but a lot of people are fed up with a minority that imposes us what we are supposed to think or say. That’s why Dieudonné is very popular, because he says things that go against political correctness. And mocking the Holocaust is the furthest he can go, the last barrier. That’s what makes him popular. Because it’s strictly forbidden to make fun of Jews. You can mock blondes, Belgians, say that Arabs stink or that black people are monkeys. A mayor even said Hitler didn’t kill enough Roma and only received a ridiculous suspended fine. Had he made the same comment about Jews, he would have been sent to jail. Is that freedom of speech?

In France before every presidential election, major candidates promise they will make it illegal to deny the Armenian genocide. As if anybody cared. It’s just that they want to please the Armenian community and a famous French singer who is Armenian born. Sarkozy promised it, Hollande too. The only thing they’ve really done so far is to infuriate Turkey.

When they need it, they’ll find some Arab genocide or will make it illegal to say that colonization was a good thing and that those who don’t repent must be sent to jail too.

I wish freedom of speech meant something in France. Dieudonné does not interest me but he should be allowed to say what he wants. But hey, the more shows they cancel and the more famous he is. And the more sympathetic he seems to people.

@Eugrus

Do you have a specific example? I watch TYT from time to time, but I get awfully frustrated with certain ones of their videos. They often take instances that have already been resolved in a fashion that would please any liberal, then go on a tyrade against the person or institution that has already been punished. I am probably fairly well politically aligned with Cenk Uygar, but I do find that he has a knack for making things seem tabloidesque.

Certain schools may do terrible things, such as turning away students, but they by no means have the right to do so.

ad MADARA: (…) ( strangely no one is accusing anyone for the Holocaust which took place in Palestine in (…)

I agree with some of the points you raised in your post but definitely not with this part. Yes, Palastinians suffer a lot in the Middle East conflict, but you would have to be quite ignorant about what was really going on in WWII to actually use the term “holocaust” the way you did. Do you see Palestinians rounded up and put in gas chambers? Are they being used for medical experiments by the Israelis?

Despite some really terrible things going on there, Palestinians can actually go to work and live in Israel, they can go and study there. And you call this situation “a holocaust”?

Just like some people arbitrarily use the term “nazi” and “fascist”, you seem to be using the term “holocaust” in a very arbitrary way.

By your standards, you would have to call the ongoing killing between different factions of Muslims a “holocaust” too. Just think of how systematically Shiites are under attack by Sunnis in Iraq.

I don’t agree with the settlement policy of the Israeli government and other measures but comparing their actions with the holocaust shows little understanding of the actual historical facts.

As for the term “the chosen ones”, I guess almost all religious people, including Muslims, think they are special. I repeatedly heard Muslims say that they could never criticize another Muslim even if he had killed someone, because after all he is a Muslim, suggesting that the worst Muslim is still better than the best non-Muslim.

There are some videos on youtube about a so-called “Muslim patrol” in the UK. TV stations invited Muslim leaders to discuss this topic. After having watched Muslims harassing non-Muslims in London for no reason whatsoever (except for being non-Muslim) one of the religious leaders refused to even criticize his “brothers” for their behaviour.

Fortunately, other Muslim leaders challenged his position.

The problem with many “believers” is that they think they are on a mission and if that mission turns wrong, people end up getting killed.

The concept of “the chosen people” is definitely a complex one. I don’t agree with it, just as I don’t agree with almost anything else most religions try to promote.

@ MADARA

“I don’t believe that people should be punished for not believing in God ( I am talking of course about this life ).”

What about in the next life?

[edit: remember, us damned atheists don’t believe in an afterlife, so telling us we will burn in hell, or something like that, should not upset us.]

ad Jorgis: I saw a few clips of Dieudonné’s shows. I neither find him very entertaining nor witty. He is like a little kid trying to provoke his parents. He doesn’t actually deny the holocaust for example but he makes fun of it. And the way he does so is quite distasteful.

As long as he does not tell people to go after Jews, I would not ban his shows. The gesture he “invented” certainly is based on the “Hitlergruß”. Just another rather lame way of trying to create some attention - and he was successful. As an “artist” he doesn’t have much to offer, I think.

I watched some of his interviews and he didn’t strike me as a person worth listening to either. But people have different opinions.

(…) …say that Arabs stink or that black people are monkeys (…)

Well, you can say these things here too but you can be fined for doing so, depending on the situation. People can sue you for slander, personal insult etc. If you can prove that they were attacking you based on the fact that you are a member of a specific ethnic group for example you can also sue them for discrimination.

(…) …And the more sympathetic he seems to people. (…)

Every time they first cancel one of his shows and then allow them after all, the tickets are sold out in no time. Personally, I go by what a person has to say and not by what others say about that person. I’d rather spend my money on a nice meal than wasting it for any of his shows, but I think people should be allowed to watch it as long as he does not call for violent actions.

There isn’t really any use in trying to forbid stupidity.

@Robert.at

“There are some videos on youtube about a so-called “Muslim patrol” in the UK.”

I have not heard of this, but I have heard of some small areas in some British cities where muslims have put up signs saying that these areas are governed by sharia law, and apparently they have gangs of thugs enforcing this. I have not seen anything like this myself, so I can’t say anything in more detail.

I grew up in the poor part of Pollokshields in Glasgow, at least until I was 8, and it was completely dominated by people from Pakistan. Other areas within Pollokshields were dominated by people from India. There were many tensions between these two groups, but as far as I remember, nothing between either of these groups and the native Scottish population. When I was about 8, I actually went to an organised fight between muslims and ‘people who believed in more than one god’. The fight was pretty pathetic, and basically involved kids throwing rocks at each other from 10 feet apart until one kid got hit in the head, some adult came out and went mental, and everybody ran away. However, everybody was very clear about why they were fighting. They were fighting over how many gods there are (except me, I was just hanging out with my friends). Funnily enough, nobody seemed to care that I didn’t think there are any gods.

@Colin

I think this is the kind of thing Robert is talking about:

ad Eugrus: (…) …that many Wohnheime just rent out rooms only for students of certain confessions. For instance, what you would typically see here in Münster is “just for male Catholics”. (…)

All of our Catholic dormitories are open to other confessions as well (at least they were when I was a student; I met many Muslims in the Catholic dormitories in Graz). I don’t know what the situation is like in Germany.

You have dormitories that are only for women, but I don’t find that discriminatory in the way the bill in Arizona would have been had it been passed as a law. I visited my female friends in their dormitories, no problem whatsoever. I only had to leave before 10 pm :wink:

Btw, I don’t find it discriminatory either if I’m not allowed into restrooms for women.

I think the reason for women-only dormitories has to do with the fact that women sometimes don’t feel that safe in mixed dormitories. That, however, says more about men than about women.

There are women-only cars in some subways (like in Tokyo for example). And there is a good reason for that. Groping is a serious problem there. Personally, I think it would be much better to really go after the perpetrators instead of having to create these “safe havens” for women.

ad Colin:

And that’s the actual video with the discussion I mentioned above:

I’d like to emphasize that I’m sure that these people are a minority among the Muslim community but they need to be dealt with. We can’t allow these things in our societies. Unfortunately, our own government is way too lenient with the Salafists spreading their propaganda in our cities.

I don’t have anything against Muslims. They can build a mosque in front of my house if they want, no problem. As long as they abide by our laws.

But these people are dangerous and radicals that I don’t want to see here (and I wish they would not terrorize people anywhere else).

EDIT: What struck me the most was what one of these vigilants said in the video: I have no respect whatsoever for the British law…

Just for the record, as much as I disagree with MADARA on many topics, I would not put him into the same category as the people in that video.

@Colin: ‘’ have not heard of this, but I have heard of some small areas in some British cities where muslims have put up signs saying that these areas are governed by sharia law, and apparently they have gangs of thugs enforcing this’’

Well these brainless people cannot be considered Muslims( the only place where they can be considered Muslims in in their IDs) . The reason is that the majority of Britain’s population is not composed out of Muslims so Sharia law cannot not even be thought as an alternative . Of course that I agree with the Sharia law ( with the REAL one not that in which the media tries to describe erroneously to the non-Muslims) but this can be possible only if the majority of people living in a certain state are Muslims. Also if one believes that his faith is the true one, he/she can’t possibly force it upon others.

I also heard of some nincompoops who wanted to turn the Buckingham Palace into a mosque :))). These guys were either payed so as to increase the peoples’ aversion towards Islam or they were a bunch of people with an utterly base education. There are plenty of mosques in Britain , I think, and even if they wanted to build more, the Brits who are known for their tolerance would’ve gladly sold them some land or some abandoned buildings to do so .

Oh and Colin , I don’t believe that Atheists are necessarily damned( honestly I wish that all people will end up in Paradise though unfortunately this isn’t possible ) nor do I hate them. Like I always say , people are free to choose to believe or not in God and if they don’t this doesn’t mean that I have the right to hold a grudge against them . As long is they behave as I would behave with them I think everything should be peachy . Of course I admit that I wish they will believe in God in order to claim victory in this life and the hereafter.

What I meant when I said ’ the Holocaust in Palestine’ I meant how so many have died without doing nothing besides residing peacefully in their own country. I just used that term having in mind that it refers to killing large groups of innocent people.

‘‘Despite some really terrible things going on there, Palestinians can actually go to work and live in Israel, they can go and study there. And you call this situation “a holocaust”?’’

I’ve heard a Romanian journalist saying that the occupied territories ( I don’t agree with the ‘Israel’ term) form the most democratic state in the world. If they’re so democratic how come Palestinians who live there can’t vote ?
And there are dozens of reason for why I am against this pirate state ( I must mention that I’m not against Jews but Zionists are completely another story).

‘As for the term “the chosen ones”, I guess almost all religious people, including Muslims, think they are special. I repeatedly heard Muslims say that they could never criticize another Muslim even if he had killed someone, because after all he is a Muslim, suggesting that the worst Muslim is still better than the best non-Muslim.’’

No we don’t believe that we are superior to non-Muslims . We just believe that we have the right guidance which enables us to succeed in this life and the next one and who doesn’t share this view is not inferior . I for one don’t believe that it is correct for me or any other Muslim to think of himself/herself superior to anyone ( this isn’t what the Qu’ran really teaches).

And the ‘chosen ones’ think of themselves like that because of their race not their religion ( the Torah doesn’t teach its followers to be arrogant under any circumstance ). Of course that not all Jewish people think like that .

@madara

Your posts always sound like there´s some kind of global conspiracy against Islam. Who´s conspiring against it and why?

" I just used that term (holocaust) having in mind that it refers to killing large groups of innocent people."

Wikipedia says…"The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, “whole” and kaustós, “burnt”…so I guess the meaning of the word is somewhere between “extermination” and “burning completely”, which is pretty much what the nazis did. I feel sympathy for the palestinians, but the holocaust comparison doesn´t make sense.
It simply gives the impression that you don´t what “a/the holocaust” is.

I´m not “Pro-Israel” by the way. I think the Jews should just get some territory in northern America…that way they would be close to their best buddy 'murica and the Muslims in and around Palestine would benefit as well. I guess people´s delusions and holy books make that impossible though.

@Madara
What you say regarding occupation and democracy in Israel, Canaan, Palestine, or what ever you want to call it, is not 100% true.

“the Torah doesn’t teach its followers to be arrogant under any circumstance”
In the sense of arrogance where it makes Jews think that they are the chosen ones, it sure does.