I wonder if there will be a classic mode in the new app.
The thing is, you can switch back and forth between pages so much faster now that the old version with bigger ‘pages’ isn’t really any closer to a book experience than the new version.
….” you can switch back and forth between pages so much faster now “….
In the classic version there is no switching between pages! You have a view on a larger part of the text which contributes to comfortable reading, and scrolling is always faster than clicking for page turning.
….” a book experience” …. I think we have Lingq not for book reading but for language learning. Of course, we also use the texts of books for this learning process, but the essence is not reading a book, the essence is learning a language.
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Whether or not you have to switch between pages depends entirely on the length of the texts you’re reading. Since the limit was 2000 words per lesson, I often had to move to the next ‘page’ (i.e. lesson), which took forever. The new format is faster in switching between ‘pages’, which is necessary for both formats for anyone reading texts of over 2000 words. Hence, the new format wins out here, under my conditions. This was stated in my first post, and ignored twice in responses. I’m simply clarifying again.
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I agree that the point is not about having a ‘book experience’, but the idea that the classic format was better because it was it more like a ‘book experience’ was suggested, and I responded merely to point out that in fact, the new format is closer to the book experience. Specifically, it’s closer because of the ease in switching between ‘pages’, as mentioned in (1).
I have nothing in particular against the classic format, although I preferred its immediate predecessor because of the 2000 word limit combined with slow page loading and constant glitches. I do prefer the new format thus far for the reasons stated; specifically, that the much higher speed and almost total lack of glitches more than makes up for the smaller word limit per page.
I have strongly recommended LingQ to almost everybody I meet who is learning a language. But quite frankly, the way it is set up now, I have thought about not mentioning lingQ anymore. This is sad, because I truly have fallen in love with lingQ, if people can’t access the Classic version, much of the advantages to the site is now lost. I prefer to re read as many have mentioned, in long segments. But if this is taken away, and only 2 or 3 sentences is available, it makes it more difficult to help one who is already fairly intermediate in a language. Please allow the classic view to stay on the site, and as an option for newcomers. I don’t believe it is as enticing right now the way it is set up. I am sure it has its advantages with a new language learner, but for one who wishes to keep advancing I fear that this will be a hindrance as many of us have noted.
Thanks,
-Cody
I suggest giving it some time. I was totally against the version they just switched from because it was so short, but that was mainly because there was both less text AND it was no faster. The new version is much faster. I’m far beyond beginner or intermediate, and it doesn’t bother me so much to have short paragraphs. It’s just like turning a page in a book - quick, easy, you can always flip back. And perhaps most importantly, they don’t appear to be cutting off sentences in the middle - so far, my ‘pages’ have always ended at the ends of sentences. This is helpful because it means that I don’t miss phrases that I want to memorize simply because I can’t highlight the whole thing.
I am using LingQ 4.0 mostly on my iPad in Beta. To me there is no comparison. It is much better now, and will continue to get better. We may lose some people, but we simply could not stay where we were, and I feel the technical group are moving in the right direction. I am just a user and observer and not involved in the decisions.
For me the new version is still slower and not faster. I’ve opened a lesson with about 2,000 words and it took me 5 seconds in Classic view and 7 seconds in Beta view (with Firefox). The Beta is slower and I’ve to click a lot for new pages.
Hi Steve,
… we simply could not stay where we were” …. Why not? What is the problem?
And: if many lingquers are happier with the classic version due to reasons they have made clear, why not continue to give them the possibility to work with their favourite version?
I too have recommended LingQ and have been here for years. This is the first time i am actually looking to doing my main language learning elsewhere (because in the future i suspect that the ‘classic’ LingQ will be retired). That saddens me.
M
Bah. I’m curmudgeon-in-training, and my usual mantra is “change is evil”. But counter to my expectations I really like the new interface and improved functionality. Sans any bugs yet to be fixed, newcomers should find the service just as compelling as did we originally. And I assume enhancement requests will still be entertained.
Too few people get started. Even our enthusiastic users have trouble convincing their friends to use LingQ. Here are some comments from another thread.
…we are staying the course with LingQ 4.0. Already we are seeing almost 3 times as many LingQs created by the whole community per day, and people using 4.0 outnumber classic users 8 to 1.
Re your points.
- In 4.0 new users will get more guidance in course selection once all the elements are there. There will also be feeds to follow the lessons studied by people you want to follow and eventually feeds from your favourite online content sources. But give us time to roll all of this out.
- In 4.0 Beginners will see preselected Hints. In the long run, the convenience of User Hints is far greater than the inconvenience of the odd incorrect Hint. The more experienced user will choose what fits, the beginner will only see appropriate Hints, and we will continue to try to eliminate incorrect Hints if we all work on this together.
- We may experiment with a longer introductory period, although previous experience has not shown this to generate more conversions. But we will try again once all of the 4.0 is in place.
- We have already increased reliability and expect that performance will be a lot better once everything is in place.
- We will also address the complication of the site, and introduce some early gratification through more gamification of the vocabulary activities, that will engage people earlier.
There is lots more to come. Stay tuned.
Classic will not be retired, just not available to newcomers who are not aware of it in any case. so far we are seeing much more LingQing and a higher level of engagement and we are just beginning. Of course we don’t wan’t to inconvenience existing users and will keep Classic for them.
Steve, if there’s lots more to come, I have a suggestion/Christmas-wish. Make a synonym exercise. I’ve never found most of the practice activities very useful. I’ve never The cloze activity is pretty much useless for Russian (and it would be the same for any case language) because the incorrect lures in the multiple choice list are randomly generated and therefore suggest multiple ways to eliminate them. For example:
Долго сидел он _________ на том же месте, взирая на тихое течение…
А. осуществлять В. улыбчивый С. неподвижно D. изматывание
I’ve just made this one up, but it’s illustrative of the problem. A,B, and D are clearly wrong even for someone at A2 because they’re grammatically impossible. That means that one can get the right answer without even understanding what the word means. To make the cloze more useful, I suggest dividing it into vocab and grammar practice: use the same word in different forms for the grammar practice (неподвижен, неподвижный, неподвигающийся, и т.п.) and different words with similar but impossible meanings for the vocab cloze.
Since the generating synonyms automatically that would match a sentence is a hairy beast of a problem I suggest a synonym activity in which a small cloud of, say, 15 other words from the user’s vocabulary list is generated, and the user has to choose 4 words which are synonyms. As an additional feature to the activity, it would be great to then have the program display 8 sentences (1 for each synonym and 4 random lures) drawn from google and turned into a cloze. That would provide phenomenal practice with usage and vocabulary development.
We are open to ideas on how to make the activities as useful as possible. As you have noted, these are all generated automatically, and in the same way for all 21 languages. They are not designed for any specific language. This limits what we can do.
Personally, I did not do cloze tests before, but now that the tests are random , I kind of enjoy them all. To me they are not just tests, but a different form of exposure. We get only 20 of them at the end of each lesson and I enjoy, even look forward to doing them. It is just a bit of variety that keeps us alert and interested. At any rate, we have to complete what we have on the books first and then we can look at improvements.
Some day we may be able to focus on the needs of specific languages.
Thank you for the birthday wishes. Today I am going to roll up my sleeve and be a good little language learner. I shall give the new version a chance.
I can already report some progress: I was able to read all notifications.
Once I get into learning mode I shall make a note of whatever I like / dislike, just in case I need to give feedback.
Duh! I did click on the green thing … . Today it was working for me. Once I have done my writing on the forum for today, I shall even have a look into a lesson or two. Who knows? I might be able to make LingQs this time. Watch this space (if you feel like it).
On the other hand, you are right about my son. He and his wife gave me some “Golden Age” stuff to slap onto my face - from those people who claim that we are worth it.
That is excellent to hear. Thank you Steve. I also think that the majority of people’s main complaint is simply (unless I am misreading and maybe only speaking from my personal opinion), they wish to just have an option to be able to see the larger text at hand. The only real advantage to this, is once you have already read something a couple of times through, when you listen to the content and if you wish (like myself) to read a long the first couple of times, it makes it more difficult to keep up with the listening/reading.
I definitely think that the new version is going to be more accessible and useful in the long run, but when for example one wishes to listen to a chapter of a book, and they wish to read along, it has proven itself difficult (at least in my case, and it seems to a couple of others).
I think that it is an improvement, it isn’t as intimidating as seeing 7000 words in front of you and 5000 are blue, instead you only see a couple of sentences, and you can work on proficiency with the sentence. Like a mini LingQ page. I look forward to working with it as a whole. As mentioned, the likely best way to resolve the issue of “Classic” vs “LingQ 4.0” is simply offering an option to have a vision of the full text once the lesson is completed.
Thanks for all the hard work that you and the team has done so far with LingQ. It is a phenomenal website, and I love using it. I am currently not able to work as much as I would like to on it, due to some restrictions with one of the languages that I need to focus on for the time being, but I love what you have done!
-Cody