Pay or not to pay?

Open Forum
81

Hi everyone,

I’m brand new to the forums and this website… so I hope you don’t mind if I share my thoughts about the subject.

:slight_smile:

I actually found Steve’s blog through a link at ted.com, and then clicked over to this website after reading through one of his blog posts.

Steve constantly refers to “LingQ” in his posts… but doesn’t really explain what it is or how it works… so when I arrived at the website, I immediately assumed there would be a big “WHAT IS THIS” page to explain exactly what is LingQ…

And I found it here:

http://media.thelinguist.com/media/2008/videos/Introduction/Introduction.htm

Great!

So… now the big question is… should I stick with the free stuff, or should I spend some $$ and upgrade?

To be honest… I actually am quit familiar with internet business and regularly consult with client on how to monitize their sites. I am the owner of a hosting company (etwebhosting.com), as well as sell my own software online (snippetmaster.com).

I’m a big fan of the idea of offering a free “basic” or “lite” product/service, and then using that to draw buyers/subscribers to purchase the paid products and/or services. So I like that you have done this with the website here, where there is a significant free portion available to me. I can see quickly what you are offering, etc…

The only suggestion I have is to organize things in a way that it is more clear the differences between the free and paid versions. Perhaps a comparison chart or something like that would be beneficial, and then link to it frequently whenever you have a download, etc. this way, it’s constantly in front of me what I am “missing out” on by using only the free content.

For example, in my software, the free version actually has all the same links and features displayed as the full paid version. However, when someon clicks on a link that is only available in the paid version, a little popup appears to say that this feature is only available with a license, etc…

So perhaps something like that might work to help convert your free users into paid subscribers? The idea is they can see immediately what “extra stuff” they can get if they pay.

One last suggestion is to maybe have a testimonials forum or some place where real people who are actively paying for a subscription can post their reviews and thoughts. In order to make such a section truly useful, you should structure the “review” so that it follows the same format. I want to see if the subscription would help ME, remember?.. so when I read a review, it should be immediately clear to me, if this service is going to help me, as much as it helped the reviewer. The best, most efficient, way to do this would be to ask your reviewer to answer a few questions. Why did they subscribe? What language are they learning? Do they feel it has helped them? Why has it helped? Why, specifically, would they recommend it to someone else?

The idea here is that you want specific and detailed answers to these questions. Generic reviews that say nothing more then, “This is great! You should buy it!” are really just a waste of space… whereas an answer that says the reviewer is learning French, and found they have vastly improved their spoken language comprehension since starting, and would recommend it because of the helpful tutors, and they tried previous programs before but this one matches their learning style… now a review like that would be helpful for me to know.

Anyway… I hope this helps a bit.

The only other thing I might suggestion, and this is really subjective… is to constantly inform anyone who isn’t logged into an account about how the website works. The idea being that if they are not logged in, then most likely they aren’t a member and need “help” to understand how things work. Big graphics and linkable pictures to each section of the website would be beneficial. Not just in one place, but all over… this will quickly help you get a higher conversion rate (people to become members).

Cheers!

82

hstraf,

Thanks and there is lots of good advice there for us to consider.

Right now the reasons to become a paying member are:

  1. You want to take on a personal tutor who will watch over you and answer your questions.
  2. You want to have online sessions with a tutor.
  3. You want to submit writing for correction
  4. You have saved more than 300 “LingQs” and want to save more.
    If you try doing any of the above you will see a message asking you to become a paying member.

Many people, like you, do not understand what to do, and so one of our priorities is to make the site easier to understand and use. You will see this over the next month or two. If we can get people to do more at the site, then more people will become paying members eventually.

There is a chart with the differences when you sign up and when you are asked to pay. We may want to make this more obvious.

We want to encourage people to save more LingQs since we feel this important for learning the language, in many different ways. We are not being as successful as we would like and hope that the changes we will bring in will get more people LingQing.

We link to our testimonials on the landing page, and use them as they are. If the learners mention the language they are learning then it shows up in the testimonial.

I will leave it at that and leave to it to Mark to provide more information. He is the one who has conceived the site, and who is working the hardest to make it better.

Advice and suggestions are always welcome although we cannot always respond right away, and need to stay focused on our priorities.

83

The only thing I would add is that there is a comparison chart on the Account page where you go to upgrade.

84

When I first started on LingQ I couldn’t understand why anyone would pay to use some on-line software. After about 3 weeks I upgraded to Basic and bought some points. Even then it wasn’t clear to me how many points a regular language learner might realistically use each month. Somone has obviously thought through what is a sensible level of speaking and writing, as this is built in to the progress bars on your profile page. But I have had to ‘do the math’ (US useage) to work out how many 15-minute sessions and how many hundred words of writing submissions a month these targets translate to.

It would have been really helpful if, on the ‘upgrade your membership now!!!’ page there was actually a little section that said:

"We recommend for optimum learning that at ??? level you take at least ?? conversations and submit at least ??? words of writing a month, which will cost you a minimum of ??? points. To buy ??? points costs free members $???, basic members $???. Plus and Premium members get a monthly points allowance of ??? and ??? respectively, and more points may be purchased at a rate of $??? per 10 000 points.

If you don’t do the recommended amount of speaking with a tutor and submitting writing for correction each month you should still improve, but you will not progress as quickly."

It would also be nice to see spelled out the ‘tipping point’ at which a premium membship is worth having over a plus membership. I haven’t worked it out, but I guess it’s at intermediate 2 or when you are at basic 2 or higher on two or more languages that you are studying simulataneously.

85

Helen,

The fact is that most people don’t really want more stuff to read so we want to limit the amount of text explanation on that page. However, we do need to try and figure out how to help people choose the level that is right for them. In terms of specifying the activity level that is appropriate for your current level in a language, the Courses do do this. Different levels of writing, are included based on your level. Another option would be to have Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced memberships, each with a different amount of points included each month.

86

I am sorry to play the bad guy but why would people pay for something they could get for free or for less -

Since my last post on this particular topic I get at least 3 free communities for learning languages - there are free softwares like interlex and anki that work as good as lingq.

I saw one site calling for money - they say their site cost less than 50 euros a month.
One other prices less than 50 dollars a year. and some are for free.

There is free webhosting for people offering free services to the internet community.

87

People have many different reasons for liking certain language learning services over others, whether free or not. People make their own choices based on what they like to do, time available, other options, learning goals etc…

People are free to use LingQ free of charge. Many do. They just delete any saved LingQs over 300,do not join any discussions with tutors, do not write etc. In my view, and that of our members, this does not enable the learner to take full benefit of an integrated system like LingQ.

But the free members are also welcome here and in many cases are actively contributing in other ways. I think most paying members respect the active free members (and hope they will one day become paying members) and I think most free members respect the paying members.

Pierre, you are the only one I know of who is active on our Forum trying to persuade LingQ members that it is bad idea to pay for any services at LingQ. I am just curious to know your motivation.

88

Sorry Steve,

I stopped looking at this thread for awhile. Mr. Doooo’s (three Os four O’s, I can never remember) comment where I think he was just coming up with an idea on the fly about ISPs paying website owners 'cause we’re all buying high speed internet in order raise the level of quality material on the 'net.

So yeah, naturally I don’t think anyone should be forced to compensate anyone in the sense that the government shouldn’t come in and say ISPs are making loads of money yet people who are the internet are trying to figure out ways to monetize things, so ISP’s should be paying out to websites. The internet would become like cable/satelite tv where I’d have to start buying news packages, entertainment packages, I’d have to start worrying if the package I bought contains ESPN.com but where would I get my soccer news?

So I’m just saying the government doesn’t need to fix up anything and too much quanity and questionable quality is just part of the nature of the internet, and you have to find what fits for you and choice and freedom is most important blah blah blah…

89

When I first started here, I liked the idea of the free membership, and still do so for first time users, a taster for treats to come. I live on a fairly restricted income, but am pleased to have upgraded, even if it is only to Basic. The monthly fee is laughably small in comparison to the value I actually get out of using the system. I like the commitment of the tutors and that of all other active members, as well as the quality of material and support received. I also value myself and would hate to live life deleting LingQs in order to stay under a threshold. I do understand, though, that there may be some people who would love to upgrade but cannot afford even the price equivalent of a daily unsmoked cigarette or so. I’m just saying I wonder how valuable free services really are to an individual.

90

Pierre - could you please mention these free alternatives? I’m fully aware of several options out there (free or not), some of which are good at what they do (and some, not worth a nickle) - however, I have yet to see another site offering the word count tool. Although I use other methods for learning/reviewing vocabulary, I very much appreciate the ability to see how many words in an “unseen” text are considered “new”. I’m not arguing with you regarding free podcasts, texts, flashcard programs et.c. I just wonder how many websites, applications, one has to use/subscribe to/install…

91

Jeff-see page 2. They weren’t all comparable to lingq, but he did list things…

92

Hi PierreM and Victoria,

I must to say something about learning Deutsche Welle website. I had an experience of learning German with “Deutsch warum nicht” for beginners before I come to the LingQ website. I had a reason to learn German, I had a commitment, I had an experience learning foreign languages, I had a learning content – their interactive lessons and MP3 files, I actually finished Deutsch warum nicht, but it still didn’t work for me. However, Vera’s “German now” and lingQ’s German version of “Who is she” do work for me. For my opinion there several differences:

1- I think the content of Deutsche Welle is great, but the need to provide a version in German only, without translation. I feel difficulty to immerse into a target language when I always hear explanation in my native/other language I know.
2- They only have one possibility, only one course for each level, I think that the possibility to choose the content of interest is very important, and lingQ gives me this possibility from the very beginning.
3- Edward already mentioned this point, but I’d like to add. The community might be more or less important for different people (it is one of my research areas :-), but in general we learn better with similar others. I don’t now people studying German surrounding me, therefore learning with Deutsche Welle was a lonely experience. It is very important not to be isolated in our learning; personally I found it very encouraging to be a part of world language learning community.
4 – Lastly, re: the point Victoria mentioned above. From the practical point of view, there is no chance I can found people for regular talking in German of Italian in my real-word environment. Even online you need to be an advanced or at least intermediate II learner for feel comfortable to participate in casual online discussions. Discussions in public chatrooms are clearly sexually oriented and in writing. Since Skype stopped to provide the skypecast service, it became more difficult to find people for general audio conversation. Yes, I know about SkypeMe function, but does someone here feel comfortable to use it?? Through lingQ you can find people to chat in your target language that as you, are interested in practicing their speaking skills. And if you don’t – you always have a possibility to participate in regular spoken conversations with your tutor with or without other learners. I don’t really think that 10$ at month is expensive for one system combining resources, content management tool, training tool, and different tools for maintaining learning community.

Try to learn language with learning resources only - and see if it’s work. Also check how much cost a traditional face-to-face language learning course including materials, drive cost - and see if you still think that what you pay here is expensive.
Ina

93

A couple of common English expressions that might be of interest:

There’s no such thing as a free lunch.
Free software isn’t worth the price.
You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

That’s why we are all here on LingQ :wink:

94

First, I came to TheLinguist in 2007 - it was free only for 30 days but I decided very quickly to pay

The important point for deciding was, I had here content for listening to and audio - it was easy to bring the content to my mp3-player and then this helpful kind of saving vocabularies.

Later TheLinguist changed to LingQ and offered more languages. I began to help in the German area.

Why I am always a paying member although I have points through my imported content in the German part is, that I don’t want to have only 300 words - I want to review my vocabulary again and again.
I want to speak with a native speaking tutor (and I can buy points when my points are not enough with 50% discount).
Speaking with Skype is for me the only possibility to train my ability in speaking.

And, at least, I always think, I have to honor a good work even if I have to be economical with my pension.

95

I can think of a lot of free software that’s worth the price. Audible for one. openoffice.com. There’s a lot actually.

I think concerning lingq the better phrase might be “free service isn’t worth the price”.

96

I am learning Chinese (traditiional characters).

LingQ is in principle a great website to learn, but I personally never thought about subscribing because of the following:

  • There are only a few Chinese texts with traditional charcters.
  • The text must be with spaces between the “words” although in Chinese this is not the case. Otherwise LingQ does not recognize word boundaries and the dictionary lookup and marking known vocab does not work properly.
  • I prefer ANKI to train my vocab. The builtin LingQ flashcards are not enough for me.
97

This thread is so long that I’m getting confused. Has there been any mention of paying for multiple languages right from the start? Something like Buy two, Get one free?

98

What do you mean with “get one free”? I have a basic membership and study German, Russian and Chinese. And I can add all the other languages if I want.

99

inablau

I use free software audacity to erase the part of mp3 I do not want to hear each time like the french part in Deutsche warum nicht or the self advertising of many language lessons poadcasted. It is taking some time but since after I listen a lot of time at the end of the day or (the year lol) I win some time. The following could answer to you too.

Steve

Why am I the only one trying to convince people not to pay ? Well it looks like I got a shung goa language learner who thinks like me lol Seriously probably people who thinks like me consider a lost of time to explain their idea - I do not care to know if I am alone in my idea or not. Steve you know the number of users and how many do pay…

My motivation is not to get you into bankrupcy or something - everybody has the right to run a business and to make some profit. This post starts because many does not pay - they did so before I talked here. I will not fight to get people not paying to you Steve - if people feel better paying - that is all good for you. Thank you for all the free stuff you are offering.

Now if you want a file on how make the site better - you need to pay me lol

Next post the alternatives.

100

Pierre

Quite frankly, I can’t make any sense of your arguments in the context of this discussion.