Thanks! He’s right about pro vita (for pro vitae); it was the one true error I noticed in the transcript (but there may be more, of course; my Latin is pretty rusty). I think the grammars say it’s “by attraction” when they don’t want to call it an error. It does sound like “vita” in the audio.
I don’t think there are any more errors, not by my own judgment but because Olivier is so astute when it comes to the written language. He’s the kind of person that will take a passage and translate it into Latin, several other ancient languages and his own constructed auxlang just for fun. Or rather, for the sake of comparison as his constructed language is based on a common PIE wordstock. Here’s one from a few years back:
Persée s’arrêta pour boire à Chemnis, en Egypte. Comme il longeait la côte de Palestine, il aperçut une femme nue enchaînée à un rocher et aussitôt il tomba amoureux d’elle. C’était Andromède, fille de Céphée, le roi noir africain de Jaffa, et de Cassiopée. Cassiopée s’était vantée qu’elle et sa fille était plus belles que les Néréides ; celles-ci se plaignirent de cette insulte à Neptune, leur protecteur. Neptune envoya un déluge et une baleine femelle pour dévaster la Palestine, et, lorsque Céphée consulta l’oracle d’Amman, il lui fut répondu qu’il n’avait qu’une seule chance d’être délivré : sacrifier Andromède à la baleine. Ses sujets l’avaient donc contraint de l’attacher à un rocher, nue, portant seulement quelques bijoux, et de l’abandonner là pour être dévorée.
Perseus bibitum in Chemnide, in Aegypto, constitit. Litoris Palaestinis legendis, mulierem nudam rupi vinctam prospexit et statim amore ejus captus est. Erat Andromeda, filia Cephei, regis aethiopici Ioppes, et Cassiopes. Cassiope jactaverat se suamque filiam pulchriores esse Nereidibus ; hae de isto probro apud Neptunum, patronum suum, quiverunt. Neptunus diluvium cetumque femineum ad Palaestinam vastandam misit, et, cum Cepheus oraculum Ammonis consuluit, ei responsum est ei esse unam spem ad se liberandum : immolare Andromedam ceto. Cujus cives coegerant ut eam rupi, nudam, solum nonnullis gemmis ornatam vinxerit atque hic reliquerit quae vorata sit.
Ho Perseus epestathê hina piê en tê Khemnide, en tê Aiguptô. En tô auton parerkhesthai tên paralian tês Palaistinês, eiden gunaika gumnên dedesmeumenên petra kai autika aphiketo eis erôta autês. Ên hê Andromeda, hê thugatêr tou Kêphea, tou basileôs tou aithiopikou tês Ioppês, kai tês Kassiopês. Hê Kassiopê êlazoneuto epi tô autên kai tên thugatera autês einai kalliona tôn Nêrêïdôn ; hautai emempsanto ekeinên tên hubrin para tô Poseidôni, tô prostatê autôn. Ho Poseidôn apesteilen kataklusmon kai kêtos thêlu hina porthêsôsin tên Palaistinên, kai, en tô ton Kêphean khrasthai en tô Ammôni, autô apekrithê hoti esti mia elpis tou eleutherousthai : thuesthai tên Andromedan tô kêtei. Hoi oun hupêkooi anagkakeisan auton dein autên petra, gumnên, kekosmemenên monon oligois khlidôsin, kai apoleipein autên ekei hina katedesthe.
Perseus gastond ei drugki in Chemnja, in Aigyptàu. §andé iddja and marista§ Palàisteinôs, sahv naqada qinôn, eisarnabandida stàina jah andwaîr§o war§ izôs frijonds. Was Andromeda, daùhtar Kefaiàus, ài§iopiskis §iudanis Joppôs, jah Kassiopaiôs. Kassiopaia habada flauti§ ei si jah sô daùhtar izôs wêsun skaunizôns §àu Nereidôs; §ôs gaunodedun bi §ô naitein at Poseidin, §amma fri§ufraujin izô. Poseida sandida midjasweipàin jah hvala ei talodedeina Palàisteina, jah, §an Kefaius birûnada siunei Ammanis, imma ist andwaùrdi§o ei was àina wêns ei sik galausidedi: hunsljan Andromeda hvalài. Ei§an §ài undartawidans is naudidedun ei bundi ija stàina, naqada, wasjanda hvêh sumans a§alstàinans, jah ei afleti ija §ar ei si sijai fraitana.
pârasaur vyavasthâta pâtuM hemnidi misare. phalasathîNavelâyâm adrâkSîd drSadi nibbadhâM nagnâM janîM ca akâlikam abhût tayos preyaH. âsît andromedâ, duhitâ kaphayasya, kâlasya râjo yoppyâH, ca kassiopyâH. kassiopî saMçaçlâghe tayâ ca tadduhitrâ sundaratarâbhyâM nereydbhiH; etâ açucann amuSminn anâdare pratyapâMnapâtam, tatparirakSitâram. apâMnapât eSad jalaplâvanaM ca timim upamardayituM phalasathînam, ca, kaphayât prSTo’mmno daivajño’cakathat tasmâyekam uttaraM tatavasâyâH : hotum andromedâM timyai. tatanujîviNo hyadâdharaMs tasmai nibanddhuM tâM drSadi, nagnâm, maNDitâm aNga katibhiç cim maNikaiH, ca recayituM tâm atra predyâm.
Perseus vistahsit kay pohe in Chemnis, in Misr. Kun gwahsit engwn Palestines ripa, is dyohrc unu nogwu gwen zangirbohnden uni perwnt ed is fauran se enliubh dia iam. Eet Andromeda, dugter os Kepheus, Jaffas aydokwo roy, ed as Cassiopeia. Cassiopeia hieb kwohrt schekhi od ia ed ays dugter eent beller quem ias Nereides; tas schikieyr de tod hakara bi Neptwn, iro protector. Neptwn yis un deluge ed un ster kiet kay harbe Palestine, ed kun Kepheus consultit Ammans oracle, ei buit antwohrden is hieb tik oin chance kay ses luren: maule Andromeda ay kiet. Eys ghi subjects hieb ei dwighto diehnes iam uni perwnt, nogwu, vehsend tik oika clenods, ed linkwes iam ter kay ses praedden.
That’s very impressive. The Latin is understandable (I can’t comment on style or usage), although I did not understand the use of quiverunt (did he mean quaesiverunt?), and that’s prob. just ignorance on my part. Greek, Gothic, Sanskrit, and his artificial language–very neat. Does Gothic really use the section sign (§) or is my computer transliterating badly?
Making up artificial languages usually seems a waste of valuable time to me, but your M. Simon obviously has so much ability that he’s got time and talent to burn and can afford himself the luxury. I’m jealous. Thanks for posting about him.
The resignation is sure going to add fuel to the Prophecy of the Popes claim:
According to this belief, Benedict XVI is supposed to the penultimate Pope before the last one comes in and destroys the Catholic Church and thus ushers in the End Times…
We should translate his speech into every language for LingQ.
The prophecy of the Popes list is fascinating. I’d never heard of it before. As usual, they really had to reach to get some of the descriptions to fit. We’ll probably hear all sorts of things about it during the election of the next pope. Thanks for mentioning it.
Reading this Wikipedia article, I noticed the last Pope is supposed to be benign, whereas I read elsewhere about the last one being a false Pope - tying into Sedevacantist claims. In fact, there are several Sedevacantist groups and individuals who believe the Chair has been “vacant” as early as John XXIII. It usually stems from a rejection of the Second Vatican Council, which they see as incompatible with the earlier teachings of a “perfectly consistent” Catholic Church.
Also, I probably don’t have to mention this, but the Catholic Church uses a variant Latin called Ecclesiastical Latin - although I think the primary difference is mostly in pronunciation. I think it’s fairly similar in written form to Classical Latin. Maybe someone here can confirm and/or clarify the differences.
Nowadays the differences aren’t much. This article in wikipedia covers things about as I understand them; the introduction and “Comparison with classical Latin” are a good summary: Ecclesiastical Latin - Wikipedia . (“Ciceronian” describes the stylistic epitome of classical Latin.)
although I did not understand the use of quiverunt (did he mean quaesiverunt?), and that’s prob. just ignorance on my part. Greek, Gothic, Sanskrit, and his artificial language–very neat. Does Gothic really use the section sign (§) or is my computer transliterating badly?
I think it does - I’ll check with Olivier about that. I wondered about it as well when I posted it but never bothered to check.
Making up artificial languages usually seems a waste of valuable time to me, but your M. Simon obviously has so much ability that he’s got time and talent to burn and can afford himself the luxury. I’m jealous. Thanks for posting about him.
They say the best way to learn something it to teach it, and perhaps the best way to know a language (family) is to create a language derived from it. It’s time-consuming work though and Olivier probably sacrifices a lot of potential moneymaking time for this. He’s also one of the nicest people I know, always writes in length in response to my rather short emails. I’ll let him know about this thread to see what he thinks of quiverunt vs. quaesiverunt.
Hi, I am Olivier !
Congratulations to Ernie for his good knowledge of Latin; he’s right : “quiverunt” is wrong ; it should have been “questae sunt” (they have complained)
Does Gothic really use the section sign (§) or is my computer transliterating badly?
No, it uses a sign similar to it for “th”, a sign that doesn’t exist on my keyboard…
Making up artificial languages usually seems a waste of valuable time to me, but your M. Simon obviously has so much ability that he’s got time and talent to burn and can afford himself the luxury. I’m jealous. Thanks for posting about him.
They say the best way to learn something it to teach it, and perhaps the best way to know a language (family) is to create a language derived from it. It’s time-consuming work though and Olivier probably sacrifices a lot of potential moneymaking time for this
But in the present situation of France, it’s moneymaking time that has become a luxury good…
I like using ancient IE languages for translations but the problem is that they’re outdated, complicated (I mean with unpredictable forms, as my error with “quiverunt” does show) and despite this not always precise. Writing in Sambahsa gives me the advantages of both ancient and modern languages.
The main page to Sambahsa : http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/
A link to a grammar of PIR I wrote (in French) : Grammaire de Proto-Indo-Européen | PDF | Genre grammatical | Verbe
Hi, Olivier. Thanks for your kind comment. If I could achieve half as much as you have–just in Latin, not to mention Greek or Sanskrit–I would be very happy indeed.
Thanks for your Indo-European grammar reference, too. I’ve read the first couple of pages, and will go through it in the next few days: for understanding, but not intending to memorize, unfortunately. PIR (or PIE) has fascinated me for years, but I am making slow progress in the language I am currently studying, Russian, and beginning something new would be foolish. Sambahsa, too, will have to wait, for the same reason. Sambahsa looks fascinating and would be a lot of fun, I am sure.
a sign similar to it for “th”
Oh, thorn: Þþ . Thanks. I should have looked it up . . . or even thought a moment about, say, ài§iopiskis
While we’re on the subject, for anyone who is studying French and wants to know a bit about auxiliary languages (without necessarily going about studying one), Olivier has recorded a few hours of content introducing them in general followed with about an hour about Sambahsa:
As for why, here’s what Olivier wrote:
“Justement, il y a un peu plus d’un mois, j’ai reçu un étrange courriel d’une personne se disant aveugle et me demandant des renseignements sur les auxlangs. Comme son adresse se terminait en -it, je lui avais envoyé un court message audio en italien. Il fut content puisqu’il me répondit en français et voulut plus d’informations. Comme mes fichiers audio étaient trop gros pour être envoyés, j’ai dû les mettre sur Youtube.
Même s’ils étaient privés au départ, et malgré leur mauvaise qualité (je n’avais pas préparé mon discours et il y a beaucoup de “euh”, “voilà”…), rien ne t’empêche de les écouter…”
I thought a bit about trying to transcribe them and uploading that to the library, but time is something I have very little of these days…
Mithridates, thanks for posting about these. And thanks very much to Olivier, of course. Should you ever decide to transcribe them, please let me know. The French is a little fast for me, but with repeated listenings I will probably understand most of the clips, and it’s certainly an interesting subject.
Also, among the related “74 videos” are readings aloud in Sambahsa, which are fascinating because they are semi-understandable for me. For instance, “Tracato de electricitat” (I assume that’s Sambahsa, but haven’t checked the lexicon.) It will be difficult for me not to look further into Sambahsa, but I suppose I must be disciplined. Thanks once more.
Russophile82, while we’re on the subj. of artificial International languages, you may find this interesting: http://www.slovio.com/ . Or you may find it detestable. I mentioned it once before in a LingQ forum, and I think it was described as “barbaric.” For me it’s something I should not meddle with while my Russian is not rock solid, that is for certain.
Thanks for the links to the Ancient languages articles, Ernie (and I read the one about the possible future of English too). Using computer to reconstruct a proto-language is valuable, however I think it does have its limits, especially because the same root can lead to words with different meanings, or inversely; for example “to have” and Fr. “avoir” may look cognate, but they come from two different PIE roots. And phonology of reconstructed languages leads to an extremely complicated system, even in my grammar of PIE, I did not take back all the rules (now I wonder whether I should have…)
The Youtube “videos” in French were unprepared statements made for a blind person (that’s why I made “videos”) and were not destined for a wider public (what explains their poor quality). By the way, this person sent me a mail two days ago, telling he was travelling in my city, I sent him by phone number but got no reply… I think the videos in Sambahsa are more interesting; the SL (Sambahsa Lections) videos have undertitles in English. (“Tractato de electricitat” was taken from the Latin assimil !) Other videos are Sambahsa novs (news) read aloud with Sambahsa undertitles; and there are fan-made movies with Sambahsa undertitles.
Here is the link to the full grammar of Sambahsa in English : Sambahsa Grammar | PDF | Grammatical Gender | Grammatical Number
The Youtube “videos” in French were unprepared statements made for a blind person (that’s why I made “videos”) and were not destined for a wider public (what explains their poor quality).
All the better for learning French! What better than 2 hours of pure off the cuff monologue?
I apologize for missing a day, here, Olivier. As a rule, I don’t allow myself to visit this forum until after my daily quota of Russian listening is complete, else I would probably spend little time on Russian and most of my time chatting here. Yesterday being Valentine’s Day, my wife and I went out for dinner, and I had only a minute to glance at the forum. Actually, today I still have not completed my Russian, so I won’t visit here for long.
Thank you very much the recording links. I must admit to having trouble understanding all of the French. This is my failing and not due to any deficiencies of the recordings. Of some passages I catch only the gist and not the full meaning, and of course that means I miss quite a bit of what you say. From the standpoint of French study they are just what I need, and this is not to mention how much I enjoy your remarks, so I’ll persevere. Thanks very much for sharing these. I hope the person whom you made them for stops by to visit you; that would be an enjoyable visit, I have no doubt.
I was hoping to hear your impression of the article about machine “retrogression” to earlier stages of a language family, and you did not disappoint! The problem with what they’ve announced is that if at least 15% of the results are doubtful–off by more than 1 character from the control–how can these results be trusted, without first comparing them to an analysis already done? Of course, this is judging their efforts only by a summary in the news, which surely does not do them justice.
The article on the future of English I did not read, but I will now take a look at it. The movie (Cloud Atlas) made from that book I have seen, but I haven’t read the book. The author was interviewed recently on the radio. Somewhere on the BBC. The few minutes I heard were fascinating, but I only caught the end of of the broadcast, and have not gone back to hear the rest (Russian come first, etc.) . . . BBC World Service - World Book Club
Mithridates,I agree. These recordings are great. Just what we learners need.
Well now, only halfway through my Russian, I allowed myself a peek here and . . . this is why I generally save this forum until after my daily regimen.
Hi Ernie ! Yes, finally the person for whom I had made the recordings took an appointment with me; as he’s blind, it’s rather the woman who accompanies him that sent me a SMS in German, as he lives at Berlin; and finally I spent the whole time speaking half in German half in French !
But it’s normal you can’t understand my “unofficial” recordings, for the sound quality is poor and my speech is broken everytime by hesitations. If you want to begin to understand a language, I rather advise you to listen/watch to news report : you already know what they talking about and the speech is said by professionals…
Language is a of a very complex nature : some phenomenons are quasi-automatic (ex: phonetic changes) but unlike numbers, words are open to influence from outside, and those perturbations break the mechanism. For a word doesn’t exist per se, it has to convey a meaning. For example, through phonetic changes, the Latin verbs “molere” (to grind) and “mulgere” (to milk) should both lead to Modern French “moudre”; as a same word cannot describe two different activities, “moudre” means only “to grind”, while “to milk” is “traire” in Modern French, from Latin “trahere” = “to drag”.
By the way, I hope you had a good Saint Valentine’s dinner
For me it’s something I should not meddle with while my Russian is not rock solid, that is for certain.