Nice attack - the nightmare continues?

Is the West entering a new reality of ongoing terrorism? Are our societies entering a vicious circle of terrorism, backlash-Islamophobia, then yet more terrorism? Unhappy times! :frowning:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/nice-attack-michel-houllebecqs-nightmare-vision-edges-closer/

Social media reacted with anger to French Prime Minister Manuel Valls’ assertion that France “will have to live with terrorism.” Users shamed the PM, saying that more people apparently need to be killed in terror attacks to wake up the French government.

This guy needs to be fired. What a display of weakness and cowardice.

Yes we are observing a circular chain reaction started by terrorism, which in turn fuels islamophobia, which in turn fuels terrorism. And knowing that the politicians of Europe are naive, utter cowards with a massive messiah complex and no regard for their residents safety I have no hope that this chain reaction can be stopped before Europe returns to the extreme politics of the 1930’s.

Prinz of May said, “Is the West entering a new reality of ongoing terrorism? Are our societies entering a vicious circle of terrorism, backlash-Islamophobia, then yet more terrorism? Unhappy times!”

No doubt. I’m beginning to agree with Dutch politician Geert Wilders – although not really; his positions are too extreme for me and I’m not sure they would actually solve anything – that if you’re a foreign-born citizen and you commit even a petty crime (beyond a minor traffic violation or parking tickets or something), that there should be a process to swiftly kick you out of the country — even if you have become naturalized.

From what I have gathered so far, this truck terrorist in Nice had already committed a violent crime for which he had been prosecuted but not yet jailed, and yet he was unknown to intelligence officials! and was allowed to rent a tractor trailer!

I wholeheartedly agree that there should be a defined class of crimes, namely violent crimes of any sort, for which you can be given a big DEPORTED FOR VIOLENT CRIME stamp on your passport and deported to your country of origin — and there should be some kind of reciprocity process put in place whereby you’re not simply deported, but placed into the judicial system for your violent crime, and automatically placed on a terrorist watch list. If we can have reciprocity between states for child support, we should certainly be able to have reciprocity for the handling of violent criminals of any sort – domestic violence or what have you.

Which reminds me. I had a (at the time very gullible and desperate) friend who married a woman from New Zealand (they met online!) who, it turned out, was well-known for having a violent record – back in New Zealand. When she soon became abusive, it was not long before she accused my friend of abusing her – for which he was initially jailed based on her testimony, even though he had never had so much as a parking ticket on his record. (He was a big guy, which made it even easier for her to accuse him of violence.) When his lawyer uncovered her violent record back in New Zealand (it turned out that she had done the same thing to her previous spouses back in New Zealand, accusing them of violence when she in fact was the violent one), the case against him was dismissed, she was charged with fraud, the marriage was annulled, and she was swiftly deported back to New Zealand. Ultimately, justice was served in this case. But her passport should still have been stamped DEPORTED FOR VIOLENT CRIME and she should have been place into the judicial system upon return to New Zealand, and (why not?) placed on the terrorist watch list for good measure. She was a menace to society. But I digress.

It should also be noted, however, that the Orlando terrorist was a natural born citizen and had no history of violent crime, but it was well known from the time that he was in public school that he was prone to violence. So there are no easy solutions.

I still get amazed at what trivial things people get outraged about. I also find the interpretation of his words that has been put forward as the source of this outrage to be highly unlikely.

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I do not like to enter in foreign countries policies…But when I see this child who was killed
It is my human duty to say that this criminal and who support him are not humans

So you think the woman should have been put on the terrorist watch list for abusing her husbands?

An image from Instagram:

"Je suis Charlie.
Je suis Paris.
Je suis Orlando.
Je suis Bruxelles.
Je suis Istanbul.
Je suis Nice.
Je suis Baghdad.
Je suis Bangladesh.

Je suis épuisée"

For anyone wondering the last sentence means “I’m exhausted”

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I think all foreigners who weasel their way into other countries and then commit violent crimes, or have already committed violent crimes in their home country, should be swiftly deported and put on the terror watch list, i.e. the no-fly list. (Who is to say whether this violent woman would carry out a terrorist attack or not?) In any event, it would impede them from traveling to other countries and causing more harm. Let them commit their violent crimes in their home country and let their home country deal with them as violent criminals.

Impressive words, but what is the connection to the attacks that happened yesterday and in the recent past? Or are you misusing the attacks in Nice as an opportunity to give your personal view on how to save the western world?

Why is expressing ones opinion misuse of an event? Do you have a problem with people expressing their opinions in general or is it only when you disagree?

You know exactly what I mean.

End of “discussion” for me (so you don’t waste your time replying)

As I have already said, from what I have gathered so far, this truck terrorist in Nice had already committed a violent crime for which he had been prosecuted but not yet jailed, and yet he was unknown to intelligence officials and was allowed to rent a tractor trailer.

If it is true that he had already been prosecuted for a violent crime, the policy I am describing would likely have had the desired effect. He could very well have already been deported back to Tunisia as a violent criminal and placed on a no-fly list. Would it stop all terrorists? No. Would it impede violent criminals, including this one in Nice? Yes.

If you fail to see the connection, I cannot help you in that regard.

As far as whether I am “misusing the attacks [sic] in Nice as an opportunity to give [my] personal view on how to save the western world,” I have no idea what you are driving at, other than making a fallacious ad hominem argument.

I’m responding to the attack.

What’s your argument? Do you have one? If so, I haven’t heard it yet. Do you think we should continue to be tolerant of violent criminals?

I have no idea what you mean. And you obviously have no argument, reus19.

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Not too many people made a big deal when Baghdad and Bangladesh were bombed. They were hardly covered by U.S. media. I had to watch NDTV to find out about these attacks.

That’s a totally fair point - the Baghdad boming in particular was very much worse, much more violent and gruesome. And yet, although it was covered, there was much less media time given to it than to the attacks in Nice and Orlando…

(But I guess the focus is always on our own back yards, so to speak?)

My sister stopped by this evening and we discussed this issue of deporting violent criminals. She educated me about the fact that such laws against violent criminals already exist, but that the real problem is the lack of resources to enforce the existing laws. For example, in some of the more rural states in the US with small population centers, there is only ONE federal immigration and naturalization specialist (or whatever they are called) for the entire state! But even in the larger population centers, there just aren’t enough officers to enforce the laws. I’m sure this is true in other countries as well, not to mention lack of communication among jurisdictions. I mean, immigration officials apparently didn’t even know about the prior criminal prosecution of the guy who carried out the truck attack in Nice, only the local courts and law enforcement.

Meanwhile, there seem to be adequate resources here in the US that are brought to bear on hounding and deporting illegal immigrants, especially near the border with Mexico, whose only “crime” seems to be coming into the country illegally to work. Doesn’t make a lot of sense, does it? It’s analogous to local police departments that are too busy giving out traffic tickets or doing petty drug busts to do community outreach and thwart violent crime.

“French Prime Minister Manuel Valls on Friday said Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel was “probably linked to radical Islam in one way or another”, although Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve cautioned that it was too early to confirm such a link.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/nice-killers-father-says-son-had-a-nervous-breakdown/ar-BBuo4oc?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

Is France now a powder keg, waiting to explode?

brucenator wrote: “I’m beginning to agree with Dutch politician Geert Wilders…that if you’re a foreign-born citizen and you commit even a petty crime (beyond a minor traffic violation or parking tickets or something), that there should be a process to swiftly kick you out of the country — even if you have become naturalized.”

If somebody has become naturalized (giving up his citizenship in most cases), the person can’t be deported to his country of origin. Why should any country take up foreigners or in particular criminal foreigners (even if the person was born there)?

Just for the record the list of terrorists of the last European/US attacks:

Paris 2015 (Charli Hebdo): 3 French citizens
Paris 2015 (Bataclan): 5 French citizens, 2 Belgian citizens, 2 Iraqi (1 as fake Syrian refugee, 1 illegal in the EU)
San Bernardino 2015: 1 U.S. citizen, 1 Pakistani
Brussels 2016: 3 Belgian citizens, 1 Swedish citizen, 1 Belgian-Moroccan national
Orlando 2016: 1 U.S. citizen
Paris 2016 (Magnanville stabbing), 1 French citizen

Just 3 out of 21 terrorist were (EU) foreigners. One had a dual citizenship. Two were illegal in France and therefore unknown to the officials. So just 1 (maybe 2) out of 21 terrorists could have been deported.

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