Language , human migration and human conflict

Open Forum
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Humans have always moved, since they first left Africa. There is no country which has a homogeneous population. We are all mixed, an amalgam of tribes and peoples. There is no country which has a truly indigenous population, outside , maybe, Africa. Even there, people have moved great distances at different times in history.

In recent times, Europeans migrated to the four corners of the world and established colonies. They were not the first to move in large numbers, driven by the desire for conquest, or hunger, or ideology, nor the last. All languages that are widespread in the world, English, Spanish, Turkish, Arabic, Chinese, Russian and others are the result of military and/or migratory expansion in the past. Such is the nature of human history.

Yet many countries that exist today, where inhabitants share a common history, common myths, some common values, common language(s), common political institutions, common social norms, and a certain sense of national solidarity, struggle to accept newcomers who are seeking a better life but may or may not want to integrate into the society that receives them.

Within this context what are the responsibilities of the various members of the human community in the face of the tremendous suffering and hardship faced by so many people who are caught in zones of war and conflict, or who simply want to better their living conditions? What are the responsibilities of the receiving countries, of the refugees?

This subject strays somewhat from language learning. Please feel free to comment in the language of your choice, preferably a language other than your own. Please with respect. Or just ignore this thread entirely.

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Yo creo que necesitamos que ayudar uno al otro mas. Hay demasiada lucha en el mundo.

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hey steve what happened to conversation"pro-against refugees"

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Gone with the wind.

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Steve decided to delete it, after asking for participants’ opinion about it. The reason were the aggressive comments by the original poster, in particular some which amounted to call for violence.
He began this new thread for people interested in keeping talking about the subject in a civilized way.

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I will comment in the language I am learning: Dutch.

Elkaar begrijpen kan erg lastig zijn. Maar als we ten volle gebruik kunnen maken van de kennis, ervaring en capaciteit van vluchtelingen, dan worden we er allemaal beter van.

Het helpt niemand als mensen automatisch reageren van: we weten niet of deze vluchtelingen criminelen zijn; we weten niet of ze echt hulp nodig hebben; we weten niet of ze naar ons land komen om misbruik te maken van de sociale voorzieningen; vluchtelingen kost veel geld; we hebben een tekort aan banen en woningen; enzovoort.

Nee, er is altijd plek voor meer vluchtelingen en asielzoekers. Het begint met: Hoe kan ik je helpen? Ik wil je meenemen om eten, melk en brood te kopen. Ik wil met je mee naar het ziekenhuis en de migratiedienst. Ik wil geen nee horen.

footnote added:
refugee — a person who is forced to flee their own land, and seek refuge/shelter in another land, in order to escape war, persecution or natural disaster. the Dutch word for this is ‘vluchteling’ (literally: one who flees) which contains the word ‘vlucht’ (flee); a related word is ‘asielzoeker’ (asiel = asylum; zoeker = seeker)

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Steve, you should read the book “Camp of the Saints”, a prophetic book about migration


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in any case it’s right that Steve deletes that conversation.

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I agreed on the deletion myself.

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Yeah Steve, be sure to read this apocalyptic work of fiction depicting a mass immigration that leads to the destruction of Western civilization, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has identified as “the favorite racist fantasy of the anti-immigrant movement in the US 
 revered by American white supremacists.”

Because, you know, a 1970’s French racist anti-immigrant fantasy novel is such a “prophetic book” and so relevant to the reality of the immigration crisis that is currently happening in Europe.

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The REALITY IS the situation in Europe is mirroring that which is written in the book. The only difference is the majority of the migrants are predominantly Muslim.

Why are they migrating to Europe? A few reasons:

  1. The existence of Socialistic welfare States-When Muslims were turned away from the gates of Europe in the days of Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski, they never dreamed that the day would come when they would be welcomed into France, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom in the millions and enrolled on the perpetual dole at the expense of the European taxpayers.
    They would have no doubt enforced a Jizya tax,(Tax on Unbelievers) had they conquered the European nations, but they would have never dreamed that free money to live on, would be voluntarily given to them indefinitely, by the governments of the Kufir.(Unbeliever).
  2. The “De-Christianization” of Europe- The twentieth century, with its popular antiChristian ideologies, and the World Wars that sprang out of them, has bled Europe in particular of faith. There are Christians there, but Atheism is the prevailing worldview in places like France and Germany. Europe has never recovered from World War 1! Christians are an ever decreasing monority and have little discernible influence on the culture.
    When the “Cultus” (Spirituality) is stripped from the culture, the house is empty, swept and cleansed" as Jesus warned.
    When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.( Luke 11:23-25)
    The Spiritual world of Nations, families and individuals cannot abide a vacuum. People without any faith, cannot successfully resist people of a faith, even if the faith is as twisted and deformed as Islam. When Europe was Christian she resisted Islam, but not anymore!
  3. The “Planned Barrenness” of much of Europe- Part of the outcome of the spiritual barrenness of Europe is the literal, physical barrenness. The sexual revolution of the sixties, all but destroyed Love, marriage, and child-bearing. It is too inconvenient and expensive to have children, the goal since the sixties was ZPG (Zero Population Growth).
    This may be one of the reasons Germany in particular announced that she would receive 800,000 “refugees” over the next year. The United States itself agreed for a modest 10,000(Too many in my view), but why would Germany with 80,000,000 population want an influx of 800,000 Muslims?
    The German birthrate is near zero replacement, as are the Italian, the Belgian, the Spanish and French and British.
    A socialistic welfare State needs constant workers. Those modern, sixties couples who bought into the culture of death and barrenness, and who scoffed at the big families of their ancestors, are now in danger of not being supported in their old age, unless warm bodies are brought in to replace the retiring work force of taxpayers to support the system.
    What will an influx of Muslim refugees amounting to one percent of the population, do to a civilized nation such as Germany? For a sampler, google “Rotherham Scandal”, to see what happens when our “Leaders” open the floodgates of our cities and villages to an alien culture.
    Rotherham teaches us that a terrible sacrifice is required of the gods of multiculturalism.

Please do yourself a favor, and actually read the book.

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Ordinarily I write in English. This, however, is a topic that speaks to my core.

Normalerweise mag ich nicht an öffentlichen Diskussionen ĂŒber Politik, Geld oder Religion teilnehmen. Ich mache es dennoch dann, wenn mich BeitrĂ€ge beunruhigen.

Ob wir nun von Links oder Rechts kommen, wir alle können sicherlich sehen, dass wo auch immer und wann auch immer sich Gruppen aggressiv absondern - sei es aus religiösen, rassistischen oder politischen MachtwĂŒnschen oder einfacher Ignoranz - kommt selten ĂŒberwiegend Gutes hervor.

Ich spreche aus Erfahrung: mein Vater war ein Elitesoldat, er gehörte zu dem Stolz seiner Nation und war der Stolz der Familie. Dieser Volksstolz und die dazugehörige Engstirnigkeit haben Verderben ĂŒber unzĂ€hlige Menschen und Nationen gebracht und nicht nur unserer Familie dauerhaften Schaden zugefĂŒgt. Die Welle der damaligen FlĂŒchtlinge brachte auch uns in den Westen, nach LĂŒbeck. Diese wunderbare Stadt wuchs um mehr als ein Drittel ihrer Bevölkerung in den Jahren nach 1945 und wir alle haben es damals irgendwie geschafft. Wir hatten GlĂŒck im UnglĂŒck, wir hatten Großeltern dort. Den FlĂŒchtlingen wurde es nicht unbedingt immer leicht gemacht, aber wenigstens waren sie in Sicherheit. Der Rest wĂŒrde sich spĂ€ter ergeben.

Ich wĂŒnschte mir, dass die gleiche Toleranz, die uns damals entgegengebracht wurde, auch jetzt wieder zum Vorschein kĂ€me und zwar weltweit, nicht nur auf ein paar StĂ€dte oder Nationen beschrĂ€nkt.

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lawntek wrote:
"The REALITY IS the situation in Europe is mirroring that which is written in the book. The only difference is the majority of the migrants are predominantly Muslim.

Why are they migrating to Europe? A few reasons:

[begin copied and pasted section]

  1. The existence of Socialistic welfare States-When Muslims were turned away from the gates of Europe in the days of Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski, they never dreamed that the day would come when they would be welcomed into France, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom in the millions and enrolled on the perpetual dole at the expense of the European taxpayers.
    They would have no doubt enforced a Jizya tax,(Tax on Unbelievers) had they conquered the European nations, but they would have never dreamed that free money to live on, would be voluntarily given to them indefinitely, by the governments of the Kufir.(Unbeliever).
  2. The “De-Christianization” of Europe- The twentieth century, with its popular antiChristian ideologies, and the World Wars that sprang out of them, has bled Europe in particular of faith. There are Christians there, but Atheism is the prevailing worldview in places like France and Germany. Europe has never recovered from World War 1! Christians are an ever decreasing monority and have little discernible influence on the culture.
    When the “Cultus” (Spirituality) is stripped from the culture, the house is empty, swept and cleansed" as Jesus warned.
    When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.( Luke 11:23-25)
    The Spiritual world of Nations, families and individuals cannot abide a vacuum. People without any faith, cannot successfully resist people of a faith, even if the faith is as twisted and deformed as Islam. When Europe was Christian she resisted Islam, but not anymore!
  3. The “Planned Barrenness” of much of Europe- Part of the outcome of the spiritual barrenness of Europe is the literal, physical barrenness. The sexual revolution of the sixties, all but destroyed Love, marriage, and child-bearing. It is too inconvenient and expensive to have children, the goal since the sixties was ZPG (Zero Population Growth).
    This may be one of the reasons Germany in particular announced that she would receive 800,000 “refugees” over the next year. The United States itself agreed for a modest 10,000(Too many in my view), but why would Germany with 80,000,000 population want an influx of 800,000 Muslims?
    The German birthrate is near zero replacement, as are the Italian, the Belgian, the Spanish and French and British.
    A socialistic welfare State needs constant workers. Those modern, sixties couples who bought into the culture of death and barrenness, and who scoffed at the big families of their ancestors, are now in danger of not being supported in their old age, unless warm bodies are brought in to replace the retiring work force of taxpayers to support the system.
    What will an influx of Muslim refugees amounting to one percent of the population, do to a civilized nation such as Germany? For a sampler, google “Rotherham Scandal”, to see what happens when our “Leaders” open the floodgates of our cities and villages to an alien culture.
    Rotherham teaches us that a terrible sacrifice is required of the gods of multiculturalism.
    [end copied and pasted section]

Please do yourself a favor, and actually read the book."

lawntek,
No really, the goal of this post was to get you to tell us what YOU think about the responsibility society has in dealing and coping with mass migration, namely the current refugee crisis in Europe resulting from the civil war in Syria. The secondary goal was to get you to do this in a language other than your own (Russian, for example).

The goal was not to get you to just copy and paste, word for word, entire passages that your local pastor Bill Randles has posted on his blog, including the words “in my view,” and pass them off as if they were your own thoughts, with no attribution to the source.

Any spammer or plagiarist can do that.

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I will write in the language I am learning: English
Europe is not accustomed to receiving people. Europeans were often, privileged immigrants. Many of them in the colonial era. Or they, Europeans, immigrated to independents countries “makes” for Europe like the USA or Canada. In the new reality of the world, people can migrate from the “peripheric” to Europe.
Europe can get used to the Muslim immigration or make something for the peace in Siria. Probably Europe doesn’t make anything.

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I know there are many sceptics, and that arguably Musk is not unbiased, but I will leave this fairly readable article here.

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Good article, I think that the guilt is also shared for common people that buy cars, and ti si not only industrial cause of contamination important.

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I just recorded the Musk piece and uploaded it as LingQ content for anyone interested

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Sure, tackling global warming is a very important task for the whole of mankind in the near future.

However there’s a much more acute and far simpler problem to solve that’s is also more relevant in this context. And that’s our (the west and our allies) direct and indirect subjugation and exploitation of the third world. Our consistent and persistent quelling of free, independent nations and people in the region.

I think the breakdown of civil society is a far more pertinent explanation behind the mass migration and a problem far easier for us to solve, we just have to stop crushing civilizations.

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With the immigration problem of some Syrians to Europe, there are two points very important. The first point is the political situation of Syria and the second one is the arrival of Syrians to Europe.
The first point has two parts, the internal issue and the international politics. Inland there are a confrontation between Sunni Islam and the alliance of Christians and Shia Islam. This conflict is magnified for the international “new cool war”. It is a big problem and it have not a solution for us, normal persons.
The second point is racism and mythology. The muslins are a bit different, but they are not a lot different. The opposition is not Christians versus Muslims, no. The opposition is laic-society versus traditional-society.
The Germans or Frenchs, etc. are not a unified race. It is a stupid myth promoted for ignorant and stupid historians and politics.
All us are a product of multiple race mixture.

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The conflict between sunni and shia muslims is a huge simplification of the internal conflict and stems largely from a conscious effort and policy of segregation and division by the occupying powers in the region and before that, supported by our favourite puppets.

When the historical record is reviewed it is evident that the west have opposed democracy and independent development in the region, supported corrupt and brutal regimes as well as policies aimed to atomize and break down civil society. Before the invasion of Iraq in 2003 Sunnis and Shias lived side by side and were inter-marrying. Ten years later and they are slitting each others throats. Our crimes and caveman-like behavior in the middle east created the circumstances from which these extremist groups and terrible internal wars arose.

There is a very simple solution to this problem. If we just simply abide by international law and stop wrecking other countries we don’t have to deal with the aftermath of their societies breaking to pieces. And I say we because the state is an extension of ourselves. As long as we in our relatively free and safe societies give support or tacit acquiescence to the states and their campaign of terror against civilian populations, we share the blame.

This isn’t a clash between races or cultures. It’s the same story that has repeated itself since time immemorial - the subjugation and exploitation of the weak by the strong.

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