I found the mini-stories useless too. I’m afraid study is essential, one hour a day in my case. I too lived in a foreign country, for two years, the language didn’t naturally soak in through the skin.
3 Likes
“vor” and “pre” actually have the same meaning. 
This analysing of words actually works in other languages, too. Based on my limited language knowledge English requires this a bit less as the prepositions and verbs are not blended as in German, where they form seperable verbs. Similarly to how English doesn’t usually blend nouns like in German.
From the perspective of a German, cutting words into pieces is a rather natural thing, I guess. From the perspective of a native English speaker this might not be something that comes to ones mind initially.
It is a similar thing with word order, I assume. German features different word orders based on sentence type. So dealing with a different word order in another language is propable less of an issue for us as it seems to be for speakers of languages, where the word order is always the same.
2 Likes
Indeed, in German the meaning of the vor prefix is clear, to me anyway, because it can exist on its own, but I think pre is fairly obvious too.
As you’ve said before, most if not all languages do this. The difference between French and German is that in German the origin of each word fragment is often obvious. In French the roots are often opaque, perhaps because it evolved from Latin, hence words have been bashed about more. For example:
le vol
la volée
le volant
la volaille
le volailler
la plume
le plumier
le plumard
le plumeau
Those are two groups of words, each probably shares the same root, but the way they derive is unclear. Can you figure out the meaning of plumard when you know that plume means feather? I would say not. If I told you that when you lie on your (feather) bed you say “aaahhhh” indicating pleasure, then you might guess that plumard means bed, but I suspect that is not the origin of the word. 
I was able to guess the meaning of ermutigen knowing that mut is courage, and befestigen was equally easy. Maybe this is a natural skill that learners tend to acquire. That said, I haven’t seen any courses or language videos talking about this aspect. And I do think that learning could be accelerated by introducing the student to simple words, followed by more complex words that derive from those components.
However, this derivation of the meaning of a word is not something one can (usually) do on the fly, it takes too much time.
I assumed that was the case. No doubt knowing many languages exposes one to many non native patterns making additional languages a little easier.
2 Likes
For basic speaking around 35000 words but rather 50000, also depends on how fresh you are and if it’s the first time learning and the language itself because some need less words.
Those are based on being completely new to the language.
Nothing else but to read and listen a lot, if you have questions about grammar, look it up.
If you want to, I can send you some beta-version material I created with ChatGPT to help you learn German very fast, if you want to test it. It is based on vocabulary and on the method I used to learn Arabic in about 5 months only with LingQ (plus 2-3 months prior with a book but really I only got used to the general feel of the language, very far away from actually acquiring it). It doesn’t have any audio yet but you can just let GoogleTranslate run in another tab/record it/use some AI voices like if you have an account at ElevenLabs or likewise or if you have a premium account use LingQ’s built-in audio generator. Or you just don’t use any because I think that longer listening is a bit overrated if you can’t recognise any words, especially as a beginner. Just tell me if you want to try it out.
4 Likes
Simply because the language is much more familiar so you need to read less and acquire less words to be able to speak/be fluent.
I am really interested about it! I will definitely try it out.
Thank you very much for your help
i would also love that!
interested in the material you mentioned. would love to check it out
I haven’t fully held off along the way, but at times I slightly regret not doing more of it along the way. I’ve always liked the idea of language islands and really focusing on the vocabulary, sentences and phrases that you would use in your daily life. You might be able to read about magic and swords from a novel you read, but can you talk about everything you did during the day? Or heck…could you even talk to some degree about that novel on swords and magic. (even at a super basic level). i.e. that vocabulary is pertinent if it’s an interest that you might talk to someone about.
So you could try to orient your vocabulary and input towards those most important vocabulary and sentences that relate to your life. What things would you like to say. What things would you like to ask (or what types of questions would prompt the things you’d like to say).
So I think don’t ignore the reading, but maybe put in 10-15 minutes a day of trying to learn more personal vocabulary and sentences. Try to remember conversations you’ve had during the day and try to learn the vocabulary and sentences for those in your new language.
This is the raw version of one of the first topics, I have not yet been able to review the material. That being said, it should be correct German (99%).
There are always 2 pages with a common theme, therefore a part 1 and part 2 and then both to first be introduced to one page, then the second and the both. The more dialogues/stories, the more normal the contexts get.
There are only 2 things to be said:
-
I originally worked with a visual dictionary (looked at the vocabulary before going through the texts and while it was coming up) so it might be a bit harder just using the texts but maybe it doesn’t matter to you. But I personally do find the visual stimulation and thus conditioning to be much easier this way. I don’t have an online version of the dictionary so yeah… idk. Btw it was the “PONS Arabisch Bildwörterbuch” I used and as I am a native German speaker I just took the German words. This was the one I used for my Arabic journey.
-
As this is based on vocabulary lists that are about certain topics, sometimes more, sometimes less connecting to each other (always from two pages of the dictionary which mostly have a common theme) it might sound weird sometimes or be a bit much (like listed words) even though it should mostly be fine in terms of the content. BUT if you do find something to be odd, keep in mind that it is AI-generated content and that this is good as you are able to understand the context, so you have good comprehension! Also it can slightly feel like learning vocabulary sometimes but just go on with it.
→ This whole part does not really matter if you are a beginner as you just care about understanding single words and getting a hold onto something instead of just reading gibberish, so if you are, this point is to be disregarded.
For accessing it, just write lingq and type your username as the message (e. g. lingq nelluschristus) so that I know you are from here. I just wanna avoid allowing anyone with bad intentions to access the document.
Also, if anyone is interested, I have a YouTube channel where I mostly explain articles word by word and in context for full comprehension.
2 Likes
Btw the way to use it is to use as a method would be to go ahead and do as much of one topic as you can (1 of every type of text, maybe) but do as much as you are able to do and then the next day do one type of text of yesterday’s topic again, move on to the next. At some point you can let go of the repetition of the day(s) before but just do as you like. The secret also in my opinion does not necessarily lie in the method in and of itself but rather in the keeping on doing it because you are convinced that you will achieve this and that so you have a clear motivation. So basically you read and listen so much that you will be able to repeat it. Also it will be normal that some words are going to be repeated in your brain after you’re done over and over again.
Or just split it up and do as much as you like on one day. In the end it’s your choice.
Also just copy and paste the selected texts into quick imports.
1 Like
Thanks a lot. I have already sent you the permission access request. I am looking forward to it!
Well, feathers are used in a bed. 
I am not sure how volant fits into the first set. The translation google gave me is steering wheel.
I was more talking about splitting the words, though, so in this case recognising the stem plum, for example, less about guessing the correct meaning. Although I guess with enough exposure the latter gets easier.
I agree with you. It is probably something people have to come up with by themselves. So actively searching for words that have some in common (like a particular stem or a prefix), and see if they can find a connection. It is a bit better with Korean. A lot of the vocabulary originates from Chinese, and there are books that deal with words based on similar word parts (chinese characters). It’s even more so with Japanese, as they still use the chinese characters for writing (lots of them are pronounced the same, especially in Korean), so you can see which words relate to each other and how the meaning gets formed.
I guess that due to the way we write and the sheer amount of mixing of cultures and languages in the european history it might be less clear where words originate from or that for teachers this approach simple isn’t that much “into the face” so to speak as it is for languages with a vocabulary strongly based on Chinese. 
1 Like
As far as I know, children who start school at around the age of 6 have an active vocabulary of between 5,000 and 8,000 words and a passive vocabulary of rarely more than 12,000.
One of the main problems for me when I follow the discussions here in the forum is that it usually remains completely unclear what is meant by “speaking or understanding a language,” what is meant by “fluency,” etc. In my opinion, one thing is clear: there is no speaking without understanding (except in rare cases of dementia).
@sockdoll writes above: “No one achieves native fluency in those two years…” Thank you very much for that. I believe that the time and energy required is often underestimated. And even then, it is still not clear in which context one can converse confidently, at what level one can communicate linguistically. In most cases, the contexts are very limited.
And that’s not even taking into account the problems caused by different dialects and sociolects. The German spoken in Austria also causes native speakers from northern Germany to break out in a sweat (Bavarian is even more difficult, in my opinion). And then consider the differences in pronunciation, grammar, and vocabulary between urban and rural areas, old and young, etc. Or compare the English in “The Wire” with that in “The Blacklist”… both are American series, yet there is a world of difference between them. So what does “fluency” mean?
I think it was Steve Kaufmann who once said in one of his videos that a language is like an ocean. You only ever explore small areas, individual bays, even if you spend your whole life traveling on this ocean. I think that’s a great image.
So how many words do you need to start speaking? That depends.
3 Likes
I don’t know what went wrong but somehow it didn’t arrive, maybe try again once or tell me your google username (you could send it via personal message here, only if you want to, of course).
Right, the correct 500 words will give you a good start. But to identify these 500 words the Zipf’s law is now enough. They need to be connected to each other in a context structure, which enables the student to a) remember them easily and b) also use them in daily conversations (smalltalk). But I believe that reading about your favourite topic in your target language is the main goal, which means 5000 words at least.
1 Like
There are many ways to learn a language. People have different priorities for what they want to learn and what they are ready for. I’m sure there is no hard and fast rule for the right number of known words before starting to speak.
Some programs force students to speak from Day One. If you are self-learning, it’s up to you.
Einstein didn’t speak in complete sentences until he was 4 or 5. His parents were concerned and took him to a doctor.
Steve Krashen, as I recall, tells a story about a group of tribes living near each other but with different languages. They like to learn each others’ languages, but one rule they have is that no one is require to speak before they are ready to.
1 Like
The biggest hurdle isn’t usually speaking - it’s understanding the native speaker’s reply! I’d say stick with the reading until you can follow a basic podcast or story comfortably. If you can understand 70-80% of what’s said to you, your speaking sessions will be way less frustrating and much more productive.
2 Likes
I started Spanish from scratch 9 months ago and I now have 26k - passively - known words.
I’ve only spoken to myself and I regularly read short texts aloud or repeat heard sentences but I haven’t spoken to a human yet. This is about to change.
I’ve just started memorising and rehearsing a few jokes (see below), and I was pleasantly surprised by how easy it was and how natural it felt. This makes me confident I will soon be ready to produce original content (meaning: not repeat).
If you can afford to wait till you feel ready enough, I can confirm it will be easier and more pleasant to start speaking.
4 Likes