Please people!!! If you are discussing something that concerns the German language, make sure you use the correct terminology. Don’t write “High German”, when you mean “Standard High German” or “Standard German”. “High German” is the term for the German dialects that lie in the ‘high’ part of the German language area, i.e. in the hills and mountains of the south and not in the north German lowlands. When I speak in my northeastern Austrian dialect, I speak High German. When I don’t speak dialect, I speak Standard German resp. Standard High German.
Yes, even native German speakers often get these terms mixed up. This misunderstanding is probably due to the fact that Standard German is based to a considerable extent on High German. But this is a website about languages, and therefore we should discuss at a higher level and make a clear distinction between the terms.
At least in Germany the term “Hochdeutsch” is used synonymous for “Standardhochdeutsch”, so the language as used in most literature and TV formats like the news. Actually, I’ve never heard the term “Standardhochdeutsch” before, to be honest. In Austria this may differ, and it seems the Swiss call it “Schriftdeutsch”, but stating that using the term “High German” is wrong doesn’t apply if the majority of native German speakers use the term in exactly that manner. If you say “Hochdeutsch” no German will think that you are talking about the Bavarian or any other southern dialect.
Considering that we are on a language website, as you pointed out correctly, I may remind you of the context sensitivity of languages. It was perfectly clear what was meant by everyone involved in the discussion. So maybe one exclamation mark in your first sentence would have been sufficient.
- The term “Standard High German” is a technical term that exists in English (and we are discussing in English). It cannot be translated literally into German, because in German there is actually only the term “Standarddeutsch”. The only reason I used the term “Standard High German” alongside “Standard German” was so that I wouldn’t be scolded by the English speakers here for demanding precision in terminology on the one hand and not adhering to it myself on the other.
- The fact that most Germans mean Standard German when they say “Hochdeutsch” does not change the fact that the term is wrong when discussing language and languages. In a linguistic context, “High German” means the southern German dialect continuum and not the standard language, regardless of how the majority of people use the word “Hochdeutsch” resp. “High German” in everyday speech.
@DJTembo I didn’t state that your are completely wrong. But it appears that everyone was aware of what was spoken of. And none of us (as far as I can tell) is an etymologist, nor is this an etymological congress. Actually most if not all of what was written in regards to that matter was purely anectodical.
You can demand us to use the “proper” term, of course, but most likely some people will fall back to the term “High German” simple out of what they are used to call it.
Except his comprehensible input is not comprehensible input, it’s partially comprehensible input. I do agree with your succint description of his theory, I could not have put it better myself.
I’m sure he’s right, though RP as such was never common, it was largely confined to the ruling elite and their sprogs. My late mother spoke RP having been privately educated. I would argue that the likes of William and Harry still speak with an upper class accent characteristic of the more expensive public schools, albeit not RP. I find their accents quite distant and condescending, especially William’s, it is an accent for talking to the subjects who should know their place.
I hadn’t heard that before, it’s a good saying.
I had always assumed that Germany was littered with dialects, and the Germans would revert to standard German when needs be. However, a little research suggests that the regional dialects are disappearing especially in larger towns and cities. An Austrian friend speaks his Austrian dialect, and I believe it is intelligible to standard German speakers. A Swiss friend speaks standard German. as well as Swiss German which is not intelligible to the Austrian.
Note that it’s best not to use the term lower class in British English, it might be taken as offensive. We might say working class for someone who is from a lower income background, or working in an unskilled or manual job such as bricklaying. We might also describe them as coming from a poorer socioeconomic group, or maybe even as being less well off. Definitely don’t call them peasants. My French teacher asked me if my father was a peasant ! He meant a smallholder i.e. a farmer with limited land. Peasant is an insult.
Aren’t Rammstein Ossis ?
Yeah, we usually tend to say Arbeiterklasse here in Germany, too. Usually the people who try to avoid such offensive terms the most, however, are politicians who make laws that harm those people and upper class individuals who have resentiments against the very same. So to some degree the offensiveness is on purpose (semi-silent protest, so to speak ). I am not convinced that social or political issues can be solved via rebranding. But I digress.
If you mean the band, than yes. Why are you asking?
I stored peasent as a synonym for pawn/servant, so someone who works on a field and isn’t free, but not a slave. Not sure if this is true but I wouldn’t use it simply because I think of it as a medieval term (I only know it from games). The german term that I think of is Leibeigener, and I am definetely not going to call someone that.