How do you increase your efficiency in language learning? Is it even possible?

I remember you mentioning before you found yourself going through French conjugation tables (and doing exercises?) as you were not satisfied with the speed with which input alone was teaching you the lesser frequent conjugations. With this comment and the above one I imagine the analogy of a wrecking ball coming in and destorying a house. Slowly, step-by-step, through trial-and-error, a new house is built. Upon stepping back to view the newly completed house, you realise that it looks exactly the same as the initial house, except with different colour windowsills.

That said, what I do on a daily basis for my language study looks nothing like a language class. It is almost entirely input, but not the ‘Stephen Krashen / comprehensible input’ way. As in, I use translations and/or dictionaries instead of only relying on context to understand unknown words and grammar.

However, I wouldn’t be surprised if you actually converged on the same or similar techniques to those used in language classes. They, too, went through a trial-and-error process over many years by many organisations to reach the techniques they currently use. Unfortunately, their results are mainly diluted by large class sizes and people (children) who don’t want to be there creating distractions. They are, however, quite holistic, in that they often insist on practising the four main skill areas, and you do a large variety of activities (which is much less fragile than relying on only one or two). For instance, on the rare occasion, when I actually don’t procrastinate touching my grammar textbook, I read the explanations and do the exercises (cloze exercises, conjugating verbs, translating sentences, reading out loud, comprehension questions, etc.) and find it very useful and efficient.

What is worth noting is that I consider language classes should be the baseline for efficiency comparisons, because it’s considered the ‘default’ method in our culture/s. It’s what you were previously using to learn a foreign language in school and it’s probably the first thought as how to learn a language by many people. However, when someone decides against going to a language class and instead branches out on their own to learn a language, they download DuoLingo or whatever the latest app/method in fashion is, and their efficiency actually drops. It’s actually lower than the default option! It’s only those who stay with it and use trial-and-error to get out of the valley of uselessness and inefficiency, do they actually increase it, and only with more tinkering do their methods end up surpassing the efficiency of a standard language class, aka the baseline.

@jt23’s point is interesting that he optimises for enjoyment, because he knows himself well enough to know that he’ll lose interest and give up otherwise. I wouldn’t say, I, personally, optimise for enjoyment. It’s an important factor, for sure, but not the only one I’m interested in. I would also like to get to a high level in my languages at a faster speed, so I can enjoy them more. As in, be able to read the great books, watch the classic movies, and chat confidently with native speakers.

As for the way I find my learning strategy, I’d say the number one way I do it is logical reasoning. This is especially the case with the background of knowledge I have attained about language learning, its stages, techniques, etc. over the years. This results in me making more informed and nuanced arguments than I did before. From this, I can consider if a particular adjustment to my technique or a new technique is worth my testing. Then, as @GMelillo, I try out the technique and after some period of time, I evaluate it. I’m not always systematic in this, but sometimes I am. The issue with these evaluations is sometimes there is no particular systematic way I can think of to measure the changes, as language learning is very complex, so often I have to go off some guess, ‘feel’, or intuition. This is especially the case, if you use the new technique with a new language (eg. consider Italian vs. Russian, where you have a new alphabet and much fewer cognates), but also occurs within the same language as you become more efficient with a language, the higher level you become. You somehow have to take these factors in account.

How do you effectively set up language learning trials (experiments)? How do you go about evaluating them? Does anyone have any examples of methods they’ve tested out and discarded as they think the methods didn’t live up to what they thought they would be? How did you come to this decision?

For example, I, too, like @Dominic_Olofsson-Tuisku have used reading speed as a proxy for efficiency for several of my evaluations. Recently, I was interested in seeing how much my reading speed fluctuates, so I took multiple measurements throughout the same book. I didn’t record any other variables, but I could observe the incredibly obvious affects of being tired and mood (affecting ability to concentrate).

4 Likes

As I mentioned, I optimize for enthusiasm and enjoyment. My enthusiasm drives me to learn French and try various learning techniques, some I make up for myself. It’s not just enjoyment.

I tend to emphasize the techniques I enjoy, which for me is reading intensively with LingQ, while taking notes. I review my notes but not with spaced repetition. I also make flash cards of verb conjugations, which I sometimes consult as I read, especially the Big Four – be, do, have, and go. I also listen to French music and watch movies with French subs.

My enthusiasm was high for year and a half. I really banged hard on French for that time. I steadily improved though I often felt my progress wasn’t up to snuff by the standards of some YouTubes I watched.

I’m not as enthusiastic now. I have other things I wish to attend to. But that’s OK. I feel like I’m over the hump. I can read a French novel in two weeks and I’m getting faster. French is now a discipline for me. I know it’s a matter of keeping my head in the language.

So these days I don’t worry about efficiency. I question how much language learners should worry about it.

1 Like

One analogy I use for learning a language is solving a huge jigsaw puzzle.

Sure, there is a best strategy of starting with the corners, then the sides. But after that it’s a long slog and doesn’t much matter where you work or in what order.

1 Like

Very informative.

For French I use essentially the same method as you. For one hour I listen. For another hour, later in the day, I listen, and study words and phrases I don’t understand. Some phrases go in Anki. I also do ten minutes Anki.

My current routine for German (lower intermediate) is 30 minutes YouTube videos for learners in LingQ, and 30 minutes reading and studying childrens picture books, with some grammar study and sentence construction. I also do 20 minutes Anki. I may move to more sentence construction, and maybe even stop LingQ. My German methodology has been changing quite a bit as I reassess study methods.

That’s an interesting point and it does make sense.

It’s a good point.

I don’t use any formal method to create and evaluate trials. My methodology is very subjective and unscientific, which is not dissimilar to your method. Thus I try something, and after a few weeks or a few months I should have an idea of its worth. My core metric for German is how well I feel that I am learning vocabulary, and to a lesser extend grammar. For French my core goal is to get my comprehension of spoken French to a near native level e.g. understand day to day conversations in native films,

Reading a transcript while listening to native French input markedly improved my aural comprehension in a few months.

Listening to a lot of native French input where I only understood the gist helped a lot, probably because it trained my brain to recall words quickly. Understanding words and grammar is one skill, being able to recall them fast enough to create meaningful messages is a quite separate skill.

Listening to French input that was barely intelligible due to the pronunciation rather than the grammar or vocabulary produced benefits with all input in a few weeks. I assume that is because it forced me to focus more, but that’s a guess.

For German I followed the comprehensible input approach for a year. My impression was that word acquisition was rather slow, and my knowledge was very passive.

I then tried listening to and studying simple German videos for learners and that worked better. Active study appears to help retention. However some YouTube videos are not produced by native speakers, and the creators are often amateurs and not experienced language teachers. Caveat emptor.

Recently I have started to experiment with reading German children’s book. Initial impressions are good. I can be sure that the German is correct and is a good representation of ordinary standard German i.e. not formal, not slang and not regional. The act of looking up words in a dictionary and writing them down on Post It notes seems to help retention, possibly because it requires active study. Pictures probably create more associations.

I’m also doing some German grammar study, and sentence building. I may increase the amount of sentence building using online translation tools as checkers. I do think output is required, though not necessarily with a teacher or a speech partner.

So in many repects my method for German is tending towards a language school approach. The methods I have tried and rejected are apps - Duolingo, Busuu and Babbel - and CI.

I must admit I haven’t tracked my reading speed. I know that in French it has increased markedly.

As an aside, I have recently been reading about the history of linguistics research into SLA. As @Obsttorte pointed out some while back, Krashen’s ideas are not new. Even as far back as the seventeenth century, there were experiments with a natural method of SLA. The grammar translation method became widespread in the nineteenth century but even then some people advocated for a more ‘natural’ method and such ideas were widespread in the first half of the twentieth century. Krashen brought these ideas together into a model, and added several dubious supposedly scientific claims. There are countless other models of SLA, many with a stronger evidential basis than CI, but for some reason Krashenism has taken hold among popularisers, especially on YouTube. The cynic might attribute this to shallow thinking, conformism and laziness. Krashen is exceptionally good at promoting his model. Many of us have seen the video in which he teaches the audience some simple German. I regard him as an excellent showman. Interestingly according to some sources, he has made a substantial amount of money from lecture tours, and acting as a consultant to government bodies that are responsible for SLA in schools, especially among immigrants. I cannot verify those claims. He also has numerous academic colleagues who promote his ideas. I would argue, that like Chomsky, his ideas have gained far more prominance than they deserve, due to the guru effect i.e. a very dominant personality. And this can have a detrimental impact on the field, as it directs research away from potentially more fruitful avenues of investigation.

2 Likes

The reason is most likely that Krashen makes it appear as if language learning can be done without the actual learning part. It’s also diametral to the “school” approach many seem to have bad memories of, maybe because it didn’t work out too well for them and in the hindsight it is easier to blame the school system as compared to accept that we may just were a bit to lazy and ignorant to actually put in some effort when we were young. I for one know that I was as lazy a student as possible. :joy: