Feeling demotivated

“it mostly feels like a chore which needs to be done, and I am learning for a purpose as per say, not because I particularly find it ‘fun to learn languages’.” (tjbandel)
You should be aware that there´s a lot of marketese in all types of skill acquisition products (languages, math, fitness, etc.). Everything is the “fastest, easiest, and most fun way ever”.

Learners who fall for these promises tend to have two types of experiences:

  1. If it’s fast, easy, and fun, it’s more or less useless because learning a challenging skill is, well, “challenging” :slight_smile:

  2. After a few hours they see:

  • it´s not fast, but time-intensive
  • it´s not easy, but they´re confronted with increasing levels of difficulty
    and
  • it´s not always fun, esp. at the beginning of the learning process.

So if learners aren´t able to adapt their mindsets to the learning realities the´re confronted with, they´re toast.
In my teaching experience, many learners aren´t able to change their attitudes. Why? Because “the feeling like it” mindset is itself an established bad habit :slight_smile:

So what can you do? Here a few tips:

  1. Switch to a habit-based approach. Let´s say 2 Pomodoro blocks à 25 min 5-6 days a week.

I repeat: If you don’t tackle this attitude problem, it doesn’t matter if you take a few weeks or months off, because you’ll be faced with the same demotivation problems over and over again - in short, they’ll haunt you!

  1. Use quantifiable metrics as goals, not some “vague feeling of fluency” (that´s like trying to nail a pudding to the wall).
    As a native speaker of English with Polish as your L2 that would be something like:
  • ca. 3 million words read
  • ca. 500 hours listening
  • ca. 100 hours speaking
  1. Use an ultrareading-while-listening approach (= “book / audiobook” - combo) because
  • it´s very (time-)efficient (you read and listen simultaneously and you read a lot)
  • it improves your “focused attention” more than reading / listening alone
  • it works as a “natural SRS” because of the high volume of words read
  1. Use a time-boxing approach, esp. Pomodoro is your friend here.

If you practice “ultrareading-while-listening” in 2 Pomodoro blocks (25 min each) per day, 6 days per week, you will have read between 2.4 and 3.1 million words after one year (tip: you should strive to read about 4-5k words per Pomodoro block by increasing the speed of the audio to 1.2, 1.25, etc. on Audible, Youtube, LingQ, etc.).

  1. Choose at first interesting / fascinating non-fiction texts (e.g., the Harari trilogy mentioned above), then contemporary (popular) fiction that you find fascinating. If it´s the “Witcher Saga” in Polish, then go for it :slight_smile:

  2. Tweak this approach a little bit by:

  • exporting the LingQ flashcards to Anki. Usually 5-10 min of Anki a day can be quite helpful. Or if you need some grammar / verb conjugation drills, check the free decks for Polish on Memrise.
  • listening to other Polish content (the news, podcasts, whatever) 30 min a day in your down time (while ironing the clothes, washing the dishes, etc.)
  • speaking (at first self-talks where you try to summarize what has been read, later Italki and Co sessions) for another 30 mins.
    I don´t mention writing here, but chatting, for example, is also your friend.

If you can do this for about a year (and I repeat: a habit-based learning style is a “best practice” in this context!), ca. 2 hours a day, ca. 6 days a week, all your stats on LingQ will skyrocket.
Then you should be at B2-C1 / C1 level in Polish. In comparison, you’ve only reached about 20% of this language learning journey at the moment!

If that´s too much every day, just go for 1 Pomodoro block à 25 min a day. But then your language learning journey will take a bit longer.

I wish you well!
~Peter

PS -
I wouldn’t waste too much time on Netflix, because the word density is way too low. Instead, the combo of “(non)fiction e-books and audiobooks” is your best friend.
But of course, there’s no harm in watching a Netflix series in Polish every now and then,
However, I would never replace an ultrareading-listening Pomodoro block with a Netflix session because it’s not efficient enough, esp. in the long run.

PPS -
If the thought crosses your mind, “Why is language learning so hard?”. Well, it’s a matter of experience (i.e., what to do and what not to do): the first L2 you learn on your own is the most difficult. After that, it gets easier.

So if you come to the conclusion (after a few years) that, for example, Vietnamese girls are cuter than Polish girls, well, you get the idea… :slight_smile:

Yes, “reading” is extremely effective (there are numerous studies on it).

It´s even more effective if you combine reading with listening because the increased audio speed (let´s say 1.1x, 1.2x, 1.3x, etc. on Audible) leads to “high-volume reading”. And this works as a “natural SRS”.

There are also other positive effects like improved “focused attention”.

In short, the combos:

  • content-flexible audio reader software (LingQ, etc.) plus audio software (Youtube, Audible, etc.)
  • e-books plus audiobooks
    are absolute language acquisition boosters.

Ah, okay. Wrong guess :slight_smile:

But you should check out the grammar / verb conjugation decks on Memrise. I use them in Br. Portuguese and have found them very useful!

They could also be helpful for Polish (if you use them for, let´s say, 5-10 min a day).

Crucial thing is to find materials which are more interesting than language learning itself and forget about “language learning”.

So true, Makacenko!
Being chased by Stephen King’s “It” is, at least in my imagination as a reader, much more exciting than, let´s say, doing some boring SRS drills.

In real life, however, doing flashcards would be much healthier than being torn apart by “It” and floating with other dead souls.
Maybe “language learning” isn´t always as bad as it sounds :slight_smile:

That’s why I said, “unless it’s for…” No need to beat yourself with a stick to do something you’re not that into, particularly if it’s just a hobby.

This is a wonderful way of looking at it! I have recently come across a Podcast thats like this which is quite a lot above my level but the topics are always fascinating and its actually been fun to go through it.

Thanks so much for all this advice @PeterBorman and I barely have a response because you have outlined a solution to the problem rather than focusing on the inadequacies of what I have already done. But you have also did a really good job of describing where i am currently at and some of the problems I am facing. Thanks again!

So doing some “rough math”, and with what I have been able to do over the last few days as just a kind of test run because I have come across what you are suggesting before (may have been you that suggested it). I am going to focus on doing 2 x 25-30 minute sessions of reading/listening simultaneously for the remainder of 2022.

Though the outcomes are just a product of the habit, to put some numbers to it, this will lead me to about 2million words read by years end somewhere around the 350 hours of listening mark this year (based on the rate I have attained over the past few days - will be subject to change but its kinda irrelevent in a lot of ways if I am giving polish dedicated attention for 1h/day). Once I am in summer break, I am going to be taking up conversation classes to focus on practicing speaking but in the mean time I will just use it where-ever I can with family which will add up but it wont be possible to quantify. I might also consider ramping up the hours into LingQ as well during that time.

I am going to steer clear of words known targets and lingQ targets because I think chasing words known feels stressful in a way and perhaps not the best goal, for me at-least. I don’t want to feel as though I need learn x amount of words per given time. I think thats going to fluctuate up and down a lot and in reality, I will learn as long as I spend good quality time with the language. I have also tried the ultra-reading for the past few days because someone else suggested it somewhere else (which may have been you too :wink: ), its quite surprising how much easier it is to maintain the attention to every word but you work through it super quick simultaneously!

I will take a look into ‘memrise’ as a potential supplement over the coming weeks and will get back to you on that one!

You´re welcome!
Btw, I´m writing an e-book about this approach based on LingQ, ReadLang and LWT with more detailed info. So I’ve been testing “ultrareading-while-listening” pretty intensively and seeing what works and what doesn’t. In that respect, it’s “battle-tested” and science-based (Krashen and Co).

However, what I’ve written is only a “blueprint”: if you implement some parts of it and tweak a bit here and there (depending on your time budget and needs), you’ll probably do fine.

If you have further questions about this method, you can also ask Toby (@noxialisrex) on LingQ, who has been following a similar approach for more than 500 days.

“on the inadequacies of what I have already done”
Don´t worry, we´ve all been at your stage.
Now you only have to show the world that you can rock in Polish :slight_smile:

Good luck
Peter

BTW, “Pomodoro browser extensions” are very helpful in ths context,

Basic program:

  • 25 min block 1
  • 3-5 min break (with short workouts, drinking / eating something, walking around, etc.)
  • 25 min block 2

If you can often do only 1 Pomodoro block then do just that.
It´s not even necessary to practice ultrareading 6-7 days a week for an entire year.
I´ve found that about 5 days a week is usually the number I should aim for. That is, it´s a more realistic number in the long run.

I have been feeling the same way. I am just struggling to get back on a schedule of not watching Netflix

You will need to carve out two hours a day for the progress you desire. Set up a formal grammar wall with freqently used words that you naturally use, along with developing whole phrases, pimslaur would be a good addition for your daily walks. Focus on learning words that you would naturally use in a natural conversation. If you don’t talk about pigs, horses, or swimming don’t try and learn those words yet.

I totally understand what you are saying about using high frequency words is useful, which is something I try and pay extra attention to, I am not in a stage in my life to spend focused time in addition to reading and listening, and conversations within my home. Reality is, I only have 1 hour available daily until university summer holidays in which I will be looking to spend 4hish/day studying Polish outside of working commitments. I am hoping this will get me to a minimum of b1+ to b2 equivalent… but again, thats an arbitrary measure of competence. I am going to be using what Peter suggested above, which is focus on habit based goals and reading / listening hours because this will be what results in competence, in the long term.

Then when I have more time, I will return to some more formal lessons with a tutor, do some grammar, but focus on output whilst maintaining my input.

As for Pimsleur, I have tried using it in the past but I think its mostly useful for beginners (in my opinion) and I find it incredibly boring and overpriced.

You made me check this, apparently it has been precisely 499 days since I started officially testing LingQ on 11/1/2020.

I had signed up a few weeks before then based on Steve mentioning it in a video (of course), but I didn’t actually understand what LingQ was. It was only after searching for tools that would accelerate my process in Calibre that I stumbled across LingQ again and then made the connection.

I would say you have the right attitude/mindset for success, and an hour a day is enough to start making real progress given time.

As Polish is a little more distant from English I might recommend a little more time each day say 1,5 - 2 hours. But I would take that additional time to simply try and enjoy the language. That is, not active study, but still exposure. Maybe find a show your wife enjoys in Polish and watch it every day with Polish subtitles.

In general, as your proficiency grows spending more and more time with the language will get easier and easier.

Hi, Toby!

499 is already pretty close to +500.
So when we read my comment above at the end of the week, it should true :slight_smile:

Anyway, excellent job!

Reg. Pimsleur:
Yes, it´s good for beginners as a “warm-up” approach.

At your language level (around B1), you´re already too advanced for Pimsleur.

“As Polish is a little more distant from English I might recommend a little more time each day say 1,5 - 2 hours.” (@noxialisrex)
In general, Toby is right (see the “blueprint” with 2 Pomodoro blocks + 30 min of listening, etc.).

However, I wouldn’t start with two Pomodoro blocks at the beginning, but only one of 15, 20 or 25 min .

Let´s say:

  • Week 1-4: 1 Pomodoro block 
    
  • From week 2 upwards: 2 Pomodoro blocks (if not possible: 1 Pomodoro block or another fun activity in Polish). 
    

Yes, the whole approach consists of “high volume” reading and listening. But in the first 2 months, the focus should be on establishing the appropriate “habit” 5-6x aweek.

It´s really wiser to be more modest and start small (Clear / Fogg would say: “tiny” steps in the first weeks are the formula for success here!).

Hi, tbinder!

“I am just struggling to get back on a schedule of not watching Netflix”
The “ultrareading while listening” approach discussed here can also be used with Netflix - almost 1:1 (Note: this includes Anki cards generated by LingQ, too!).

If you choose the right approach, there should be “no struggle” - unless there are other factors at play here (mindset, health issues, time constraints etc.).

Have a nice day
Peter