Just picked this up on Twitter:
Charlemagne: “to have a second language is to have a second soul” Great piece on language via @jamesoreilly Does Language Influence Culture? - WSJ
“If people learn another language, they inadvertently also learn a new way of looking at the world.” I feel this is true.
Yes, and with each language we learn a little more about another culture and about ourselves.
In the Czech Republic, we say “Kolik jazyků umíš, tolikrát si člověkem”, translated to English: “The more languages you know, the more of a person you are”
As long as we have some common frameworks in my mind, we can notice the difference between various ways of looking at the world.
in my mind → in our mind
Every people has a language and a culture. However, there are peoples with the same language that have different cultures. Moreover, culture changes faster than language.
I simply don’t think that language influences culture. No matter what language I speak, my culture remains the same.
We don’t say “精神s” in Japanese. Should we say “our mind” or “our minds” in this case in English, assuming that each person has “one” mind?
You might be able to differentiate between language and the other components of culture, but some elements of culture cannot exit without certain characteristics of a language. One the other hand, I suppose that speaking the same language provides us some common ways of looking at the world.
provides us —> provides us with
@ alexandrec “I simply don’t think that language influences culture.”
I beg to disagree. When we learn a language we are influenced by the culture of that language, in my view. Of course, it is hard to separate all the aspects of a culture that influence us, the people, the literature, the language, the way people relate to each other etc. but I cannot see how we are not influenced.
If someone emigrates at a young age to another country where another language is spoken, and that language becomes his or her daily language of usage, that person’s culture changes.
If you consider language as part of a culture, then of course, you can’t change a language without affecting the culture. It’s a matter of perspective.
However, if a tribe in Papua New Guinea started speaking Italian tomorrow, their culture would still be whole. Of course, Italian may not have the words to express that culture’s reality, but it eventually will. Using Italian will not alter their lifestyle or the values they cherish. That exists outside of language.
On the other hand, the culture of San Francisco and that of Bombay quite differ, even though 2 individuals may share English as a first language. The fact that they speak the same language has not made their cultures more alike, expect perhaps for the fact that this increases the likelihood of interactions occurring.
Italian is not about to become the language of Papua New Guinea. Someone who lives in Mumbai (politically correct name) and has English as his or her first language will be culturally different from the majority of the citizens of Mumbai, and will, in general, share more things, culturally, with the citizen of San Francisco, than the majority of the citizens of Mumbai.
“However, if a tribe in Papua New Guinea started speaking Italian tomorrow, their culture would still be whole.”
While it probably wouldn’t cause a revolution, think of HOW they would learn to speak italian. think of all the thousands of hours of italian content they’d need to be exposed to. Maybe “influenced” is too strong a word, but their knowledge of the general idea of what it’s like to be an italian would definitely increase significantly.
I was giving a theoretical situation where they would instantly speak Italian instead of their current language. Their knowledge of things Italian would not increase unless they had some level of interaction with Italians.
What I mean to say – and this is how I understood the OP’s question – there is nothing intrinsic to the Italian language that would alter their culture. In other words, the language they happen to speak is accessory to their culture, which would exist without it.
yeah - if they instantly spoke italian then perhaps not - indeed most of the european languages evolved in very close proximity. Now I’d be a bit more cautious making that statement about Japanese. That language has a lot of in-built politeness and uncertainty/vagueness.
- “I must beg to differ on this point.” I think this expression is very polite or formal.
- “Fine!” I suppose the meaning of this word depends on the context.
The contrast between “Fine!” and “That’s fine.” RT @phrasemix: When someone yells “Fine!” at you, they’re probably angry: Learn English Speaking & Grammar like Natives with PhraseMix | PhraseMix.com
9:32 PM Aug 20th via YoruFukurou
“The language they happen to speak is accessory to their culture, which would exist without it.”
I must beg to differ on that point. I think that Haiku(俳句) cannot be separated from the Japanese writing system.
“Culture changes faster than language.”
Language could change faster than culture, and it might influence the culture.
「アメリカ語、イギリス語が亡びる」
蓮實重彦「『反＝日本語論』の余白に」（『中央公論』平成21年3月号）229頁。
英語が「普遍語」になったことで「優れた英語」を読む機会がなくなってきていると蓮實重彦が述べている。「日本語」だけでなく、「 アメリカ語」、「イギリス語」が亡びる危険が迫っていることが見落とされていると指摘している。ま た、「人は決して＜普遍語＞に満足しない」と付け加えている。英語に関しては、普遍語ではない英語が新たに生まれ る可能性があるということなのだろうか。
“Some elements of culture cannot exit without certain characteristics of a language.”
----> “Some elements of culture cannot EXIST without certain characteristics of a language.”