This is my first post so I really hope I’m doing this right…
What is the difference between 싶어 and 싶다 because I can’t really tell the difference anymore. I see that with a lot of verbs. What’s the difference between ending it with 아/어/여 and 다? I know that 다 is at the end of every single verb in its dictionary form, but I was also told that verbs are rarely, if ever, used in their dictionary form, so I’m thinking it must have another meaning when it ends in 다.
I don’t know if it’s the same or not, or if it works for this verb or not but its just for an example.
(Sentence) - 기다려 <—ending
And
(Sentence) - 기다리다 <—ending
To sum it up… What exactly does 싶다, 싶어, 기다려, and 기다리다 mean?
Can I use this -다 meaning for any verb?
Oh this might help a little. Throughout a song (SNSD - Forever), they say 영원히 너와 꿈꾸고 싶다. But at one point they say 영원히 너와 꿈꾸고 싶어.
I know it’s “I want to dream with you forever” but why are they different? -____-
I would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me example sentences like the ones above that use each form and tell me the exact difference and why/when you should use each way.
@MikeSmith - Welcome to the world of learning Korean
You’ve touched on a finer point of the language, a nuance that will take some time to really get used to. I could go into detailed explanation about how this all works but I’m not sure how much help it will actually be. I think what will help the most is just listening a lot and getting a better feel for this.
싶어 vs. 싶다 is different from 기다려 vs. 기다리다.
나 북경 가고 싶다. - I want to go to Beijing [I would like to go in the future if an opportunity opens up]
나 북경 가고 싶어. - I want to go to Beijing [I want to go right now or soon, can we go?]
기다리다 is the dictionary form, as you say. The plain form is actually what you’re looking for. Depending on the verb, the dictionary form and plain form can be the same, but sometimes they are different.
@MikeSmith - I haven’t used most of TTMIK’s stuff as I was a bit further along when they started to develop content, but they’re good friends of mine and have done a stellar job at putting together some quality resources. That looks to be the right lesson and may help to give you a better understanding of this. Do keep in mind that you’ll need lots of exposure to the language to actually solidify the grammar points and patterns that you learn.
Okay, so I’ve listened to it all and it kind of makes a little more sense now. The reason words like 싶다 or 가능하다 are the same as their dictionary form is because they are descriptive verbs and therefore are already in the noun form. You are only supposed to use it with people who are younger than you and who are close friends. What they basically do is show a much stronger form of assertion or surprise to a current event.
For example:
Stronger meaning
그럼 나는 집에서 기디릴게. —> Then I will wait at my house. (waiting or wanting a response/reaction to perhaps change mind.)
그럼 나는 집에서 기디린다. —> Then I will wait at my house. (much stronger and solidified than the one above. Nothing will change my mind. I WILL wait at I house. No exceptions.)
Surprise
You are seeing a movie with a friend and you want to say that the movie is good.
이영화 좋아. —> You were already expecting the movie to be good and you now see that it is, in fact, good.
이 영화 좋다. —> You weren’t sure how good the movie would be (maybe because you never heard of it) or you are really surprised/excited that the movie was good. You show your reaction to it more than the above way. It could also mean that it was better than you thought it would be.
And as for the song lyrics, I’ll just guess that when they say 영원히 너와 꿈꾸고 싶어, they are saying “I want to dream with you forever”, and when they say 영원히 너와 꿈꾸고 싶다, they are saying "I want to dream with you forever (nothing will change that / I will do it no matter what you say / determination).
Am I right here? Is this correct? Am I understanding this finally?
@MikeSmith - I’m not a native speaker mind you, so I would take their word over mine
Songs, even in English, can be interpreted in multiple ways, so I wouldn’t worry so much about nailing down exactly what the lyrics mean. In any case, it sounds like you’re on the right track!
I used to tell people who ask this question, that if the sentence ends in -다, it’s a mere statement of an opinion or a fact. It can be used in conversation like the ones end in -어, or -요 especially on written context like SMS.
Also, -다 gives the nuance that the sentence is more like a monologue.
-다 ending could also be seen on a diary, for example. It does not engage or imply in the first place that the audience is out there, while -요 ending is pretty obvious in that it engages the audience. Hope that helps!
Yes that was what my lesson said. It was used heavily in written/narrative ways and that it was to state something that is happening at that moment. But was I using those above examples correctly is what I am wondering.
Basically, all of the things in my (parenthesis) were just various meanings. I was not saying that my examples actually MEANT all of those. To make it more simplified, this is what I learned after listening to it.
You use this when you are surprised about a current event or situation and you want to express that feeling or emotion in a stronger way. Secondly, it is also used in narrative form when the audience is not clearly present or addressed, such as in documentaries. Lastly, it is used to talk about a daily activity that can possibly become a routine, such as in the PDF,
Ex) 그러면, 다음에는 너 초대 안 한다. = If you do that(If that’s the case), next time, I won’t invite you (and make that a rule).(In the plain 반말, you would say 그러면, 다음에는 너 초대 안 할게. or 그러면 다음에는 너 초대안 할 거야. since you are talking about the future, but if you want to talk about it as a rule or a habit, you can say 너 초대 안 한다.)
My examples I was talking about were:
Stronger meaning
그럼 나는 집에서 기디릴게. —> Then I will wait at my house. (waiting or wanting a response/reaction to perhaps change mind.)
그럼 나는 집에서 기디린다. —> Then I will wait at my house. (much stronger and solidified than the one above. Nothing will change my mind. I WILL wait at I house. No exceptions.)
Surprise
You are seeing a movie with a friend and you want to say that the movie is good.
이영화 좋아. —> You were already expecting the movie to be good and you now see that it is, in fact, good.
이 영화 좋다. —> You weren’t sure how good the movie would be (maybe because you never heard of it) or you are really surprised/excited that the movie was good. You show your reaction to it more than the above way. It could also mean that it was better than you thought it would be.
Remember, the things in the ( ) are not saying that they mean ALL of those things, but rather just the possible reasons.
Stronger meaning
그럼 나는 집에서 기디릴게. —> Then I will wait at my house. (waiting or wanting a response/reaction to perhaps change mind.)
그럼 나는 집에서 기디린다. —> Then I will wait at my house. (much stronger and solidified than the one above. Nothing will change my mind. I WILL wait at I house. No exceptions.)
Well, I personally see it a bit unsafe to define the way they did in the lesson (but I understand the options are not many) so here’s my take on it:
The Korean language is heavily dependent on context, and I assume, like any other languages, on the tone that the sentence is delivered with. For that reason, the subtle differences in nuance by the change of endings cannot be really defined. You should consider the context, the person you are talking to, the circumstance you are dealing with, the relationship you have with the person, etc etc. AND there is no definite, ultimate rule in using those endings. It’s safe to think this way: context is everything.
그러면, 너 다음에는 초대 안한다. / 그러면 너 다음에는 초대 안 할 거야. / 그러면, 다음에는 너 초대 안 할게.
Basically they all deliver the same meaning. You can take the explanation in the lesson but do keep in mind those can change in real life situation where context varies. 그러면 다음에는 너 초대 안한다 does not necessarily mean the speaker wants to make it as a rule. A person can make it as a rule instead by saying 너 초대 안 할게 too.
If one must define and explain this, I think it’s done only by technically speaking. And I assume that’s what the lesson is about.
It goes same for the examples you are talking about. Personally I don’t see any significant difference to make or the line to draw between 그럼 나는 집에서 기다릴게 and 그럼 나는 집에서 기다린다 unless we are talking about the context including the speakers. I also see 이 영화 좋아 and 이 영화 좋다 the same.
That the one has stronger meaning or delivers surprise more than the other appears as forced interpretation to me.
I would agree with monyou on this. I don’t think finer points of a language can be learned through deliberate analysis, but rather must be observed in natural context to allow for a better and truer feel of how they work. Korean is probably more so like this than some other languages because of the absence of the subject or topic in many questions and statements.
I still encourage you to focus less on nailing it down and more on continuing to expose yourself to the language. Having learned both in and out of the classroom, I can say with much certainty that the finer points of a language are better learned through observation and interaction than through analysis.
I think I get it now. You can basically use both, but it all depends on how you say it and who you say it to.
Like in English, if someone tells you a story, you could actually think its cool and say “cool story” or you can think its completely retarded and was a waste of your time and say “cool story”. Either way, the other person will get what you meant behind it just based on how you said it and the tone.
“It goes same for the examples you are talking about. Personally I don’t see any significant difference to make or the line to draw between 그럼 나는 집에서 기다릴게 and 그럼 나는 집에서 기다린다 unless we are talking about the context including the speakers.”
So, in what kind of situation would you want to use 다 rather than the others based on the context?
And if you cant give an example of that kind of context, then maybe I didn’t get the hint that it’s too contextual to describe. In which case, I’ll have to thank you. You guys were very helpful!
By the way, you gave a very good explanation. Well done! (:
And Alex, I 100% agree with you. However, I am planning to go to Korea after college to teach English and then move into International Business there afterwards. Given this, I am trying to learn as much as I can now so I don’t get too stressed out later on. Even though the area I live in now is highly Asian, I can’t seem to get enough opportunities to practice, let alone hear it because most of them just speak English to each other.
@MikeSmith - You should try to find some Korean groups or meetings. Koreans are very welcoming to non-Koreans who are learning their language, and many will be happy to speak to you in Korean and help you improve your Korean. Also, having studied Korean for 6 years and been to Korea 5 separate times, I can tell you first hand that all of the studying you do before hand will help, but no matter how much you study, you will always find yourself in situations where you struggle. My Korean is miles better than it was a few years ago, but even on my most recent trip I still had trouble at times. As I said, Koreans are very welcoming and will be more than happy that you’ve put in the time to learn some of their language
