Brexit: should we stay or should we go?

In four months time we have a referendum hear in the UK on continuing membership of the EU.

So does anyone from France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Holland, etc, etc want to help me decide how to vote? :slight_smile:

Should we stick around, or should we get the hell out of there?

(I’m inclined to vote leave, to be honest. But I am afraid of being haunted by the ghost of Herman Rumpy-Pumpy…)

Do as you please. I think the EU has already compromised more than enough.

It’s interesting, because there is this feeling in most EU countries that the EU has been too generous to the UK in the deal reached by Cameron. Yet many people here think that the deal fell short…!

I don’t know…it’s a matter of perspective I guess…? (But I do understand things from the other point of view though.)

I’m not a big fan of the EU as it is right now, I would say: if you can stand on your own legs, then don’t bother staying in the EU.

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Yes, I guess political bias ends up coloring all appraisals.

Anyway, all of this reconsidering of whether to go, to stay, on what terms, … gets annoying after some time. I’m sure many people in England are fed up with scottish nationalists bringing up the independence issue once and again. Brexit’s not very different. I did lose interest long ago.

Leave.

I think it is wrong in principle that Parliament is subordinate to an unelected, unaccountable organisation in another country. Our relationship with Europe should be purely a trading relationship, not an outrageously expensive, corrupt and undemocratic political union.

What exactly is the point of our Parliament if they have to seek permission from the EU to pass/amend laws?

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I have to confess, I was alarmed to hear Michael Gove (currently in office as Justice Minister, for goodness sakes!) saying that the deal for staying in isn’t even enforceable and could be reversed by the European Court!

(That does lead me to wonder whether Cameron isn’t just taking the proverbial?)

Please go.

We can still be friends if you want but it would be great to see you out at last. I’d even say it would be the greatest achievement (the only one apart from peace?) of the EU in a long time.

It’s a shame Hollande didn’t veto that deal.

Anyway, we all know why they joined in the first place:

This is the other side to British humour! I’m pretty sure most Germans (for example) wouldn’t “get” this kind of gentle self-mockery at all - but would rather see it as horrible self-aggrandising nationalism…

Which it also is, of course…in a way…:slight_smile:

The idea of a united Europe was born after two world wars. I think it is the only way to ensure the peace in the continent and the enhanced scepticism is very useful, in order to reduce the power of the bureaucracy in Brussels or the separatist tendencies of some political parties in all over the EU. The Union needs to proceed to the integration, because the experiment of a currency union in the 19th century proved that only the currency union cannot last. Britons are the most democratic citizens and could play a most significant role in this Union. If we don’t defend our civilization, the Western Civilization, there is always the danger of the creation of the “Great Caliphate” with the headquarters in the Middle East until 2020. So, the integration and the unity of the EU remains one-way road, first of all for our survival.

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Emmanuel Todd’s comments on the EU are interesting. He contends that “the German Empire” is going to control the world. European democracy has been destroyed by the efficient and strong German economy and the common currency of the EU. In the EU, some countries are more equal than the others. Only France could stop the trend, but the ruling class in France would not have the courage to do so.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/29zs91/emmanuel_todd_the_day_france_decides_the_game_is/

Emmanuel Todd, who is a grandson of Paul Nizan, thinks that the UK is in the process of exit from the EU. According to him, the UK belongs to the world that includes the US, Canada, and ex-colonies of the British Empire.

Paul Nizan:

“The Coming Crisis between Germany and the United States: The Cultural Divergence of Advanced Nations”

I don’t know if Emmanuel Todd’s description is right.

John Gray - “Half of Europe is being sacrified in order to solve the 20th century German question”

Can the European Union Hold?

Doesn’t matter either way. Banks run the country, the continent, and the world. Everyone else is just decoration and lip service.

Anyone about to dispute what i say, ask yourself what ‘national debt’ is and how the so-called highest form of power in the country can be in debt to a business who demands payment from them.

Looking for the expression “lip service”, which I found and it is a word [ in my language (Greek) the same meaning is into one word ], I found another interesting idiomatic expression, the “clout list”, which is the main reason, according to my opinion, for the mess that we’ve been living the recent decades even in the Western world!

Even without a powerful bank system this “clout list” will remain a “custom”. We are so accustomed to accept this specific inequality that we don’t understand that even in a disolved EU these “clout lists” will be maintaining and all these “lists” will be continuing to define our life either within the capitalism or the socialism.

"Without Britain, it would be harder for the EU to pull its global weight—a big loss to the West in a troubled neighbourhood, from Russia through Syria to north Africa. "
“Europe would be poorer without Britain’s voice: more dominated by Germany; and, surely, less liberal, more protectionist and more inward-looking. Europe’s links to America would become more tenuous. Above all, the loss of its biggest military power and most significant foreign-policy actor would seriously weaken the EU in the world.”
The real danger of Brexit

The writer of the article in The Economist thinks that if Britain exits, the EU will be “more dominated by Germany” and “less liberal.” On the other hand, Emmanuel Todd, who is a self-proclaimed leftist, thinks that the EU is not a society but a jungle. According to this famous French scholar, the EU is already dead. The “employers’ association” in Germany is controlling the EU, and what they are worrying about is the breakdown of the eurozone, which is a new name for the mark zone.

The Economist on the EU is akin to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Israël.