Blog post: Why "passive listening" is bad for you

“So, again, when done right, this type of listening can be great practice for a language learner.”
I couldn´t agree more!
However, “when done right” means that “passive” listening is more or less similar to (uninterupted stretches of) “focused attention” = “active” listening.

Or, to put it differently:
The less passive listening allows for active listening (over long stretches), the less effective it becomes due to too many interruptions, focus switches, etc.

And that´s the answer to our question “Why is passive listening bad for you?”
Passive listening is “bad”, i.e. more or less ineffective, when it doesn´t resemble “active” (= focused attention) listening.

And when it doesn´t resemble active listening, language processing and thus the whole meaning-deriving activity tend to break down. In short: There are “meaning blackouts” (im Deutschen: “Sinn-Blackouts”).

But at this point in our discussion, no LingQer wants to hear that anymore because everyone is already completely mentally exhausted :slight_smile:

Maybe that´s a good time to listen to another audiobook. For example, the free version of “The Lord of Rings” in Spanish by Angel Ruiz:

“Großes Kino”, wie man im Deutschen sagen würde!

Have a great weekend
Peter

Yeah agreed. Like a lot of things I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. No way in my opinion is passive listening bad for you. Is it as good as taking part in a conversation? Hell no.
But it is pretty difficult to do if you don’t have a language partner.

My own 2c on passive listening is that it has the following benefits:
Initially it allows you to “chunk” the language and identify where the “pauses” are.
Secondly it gets you used to the flow, cadence and tonality of the language.
You can control the amount of content you get and the type by choosing what you listen to/watch.

So yeah IMO I disagree that passive listening is bad for you. Just it’s not as good as taking part in a conversation.

I think the problem is that the term “active listening” cannot IMO be separated from “taking part in a conversation”, so I think it’s actually inaccurate to compare “active” to “passive” listening. One is listening and the other is a combination of listening and speaking.

EDIT: ^^^^ this was my initial understanding. I think I’m mistaken, but I’m leaving this in because I think it’s worth pointing out that for me at least when I was learning spanish it was taking part in conversations that solidified a lot of my spanish past the basics.

Aaaah. I think I might have misunderstood “active” vs “passive” listening in this context. What you’re saying is “listening while doing nothing else” vs “splitting your attention while having something playing in the background”.

“I think that Andrew Barr mixes up - real passive listening where you do not engage with the content, and is just a backround noise with active listening, where you engage with the content.”"

This may be a semantic issue, but “engaging with the content” is active listening and not passive. Or am I wrong? Does anyone know of any carefully controlled studies to test these hypotheses?

Yes, this whole thread has been an argument about semantics, based on a blogpost that’s making a bad faith semantic argument. I don’t know if you’d find a proper study on something that’s based on such tenuous definitions.

I agree, “engaging with content” is always active because otherwise language wouldn´t be processed at all. In the case of speech, if language isn´t processed it becomes either sound patterns (within in a language) or pure noise.

However, thanks to the discussion with @t_harangi I´ve come to the conclusion that the
distinction “active - passive” is better avoided in this context because it tends to create a conceptual mess by mixing three different meanings:

  • Meaning 1: Listening (and reading) as “passive” in the sense of receiving input in the context of the “input - output” or “sender - receiver” model. “Active” then means outputting something (i.e., sending information), e.g., by speaking or writing. However, there are two main problems here:
  • Listening and reading are always ongoing operations (activities) otherwise nothing happens. So, strictu sensu, there´s no passivity here, because operations occur or they don´t occur.
    This problem can be overcome when theories, for example in sociology, switch to (communicative) attributions or paradoxa, but that´s a story for another day.
  • Not all listening and reading activities are created equal, as there are different levels of depth of engagement (see our discussion above)
  • Meaning 2: Passive listening as “divided attention” == the (permanent) switching of the attention focus in multitasking activities.
    There´s a lot of research reg. “focused, divided, selective, etc. attention”, and the common wisdom is that multitasking is often detrimental compared to single-tasking because the quality / speed of performance decreases while the error rates increase, etc. (see our discussion above).

Talking about “passive listening” here doesn´t make sense because there´s nothing “passive” in the permanent switching of one´s focused attention between tasks.

  • Meaning 3: Passive listening refers to “listening alone without other concurrent or subsequent activities” For example: Reading while listening, taking notes while listening, shadowing, writing a listening diary/summary afterwards, talking about the topics one has listened to with one´s tutor afterwards, etc.
    For the sake of accuracy, it´s better to speak of “listening alone or listening as a sole / exclusive activity” rather than calling it “passive” listening.

The key question here is: What are the levels of depth of engagement for listening without / with concurrent or subsequent activities?

“a blogpost that’s making a bad faith semantic argument.” (t_harangi).
I wouldn´t called it “bad faith” in Andrew´s case. Andrew (like Benny and many others) just operated within the conceptual mess created by the highly ambivalent use of the “active - passive” distinction. That´s all.

“Does anyone know of any carefully controlled studies to test these hypotheses.”
Meaning 1 has been discussed since the time of the German philosopher Hegel. And there have been hundreds of thousands pages written about the corresponding “distinction-based” approaches, esp. since the late 1960s. However, that´s probably not interesting here unless you want to deconstruct the whole input / output and sender / receiver model of communication :slight_smile:

Reg. meaning 2, there is a lot of psychological, neuroscientific, etc. research out there (keywords: “divided attention”, “selective attention”, “multitasking”, etc.). Just use “Google Scholar” to look for studies (in the narrower context of SLA) that interest you.

In the case of meaning 3, “Google Scholar” is also your best friend.

Unfortunately, I don’t have time to review the literature on SLA further at the moment.
But if you tell me which topics/hypotheses are of interest to you, I will see what I can do as soon as my time budget allows it.

Hope that helps
Peter

Wow, Peter, very interesting post. Thank you.