Any language interpretors here?

ad Jay: (…) When it comes to legal and political stuff, do you use the “Dietl Lorenz Wörterbuch”? (…)

Yes, that is one of the dictionaries I use. Today, I mostly work with parallel texts but also with databases provided by the EU/UN. Dietl Lorenz, however, is an excellent general dictionary for legal texts.

I also use monolingual legal dictionaries such as “Creifelds Rechtswörterbuch” published by C.H. Beck or “Black’s Law Dictionary”.

Besides, I studied law for a few semesters :wink:

For more scientific texts I use Kucera’s Dictionaries of Exact Science and Technology, Wenske’s dictionaries of chemistry etc. There are many good dictionaries out there and now that they are available on CDs or online they are updated even more regularly than before.

Besides, clients often provide you with their own terminologies.

Who recommended Dietl Lorenz to you? It is widely used at interpreting/translating departments.

@lovelanguageslll
Thank you so much for pointing out that I had not really read the previous posts carefully enough. I also think that you are right.

A good translator or interpreter should certainly be able to do his or her job well, if enough time is spent on understanding the language used in a particular field.

I actually have a relative living in Israel whose only job for quite a few years has been translating from or to Hebrew from a number of European languages, mostly to German. He has to spend a lot more time on preparing for his work, and on working through texts, than most people have any idea of. The pay is not very high these days for this work. He is frustrated by others coming in and undercutting his rates, and then often not working to the high standard that he works to. His frustration has reached the point where he wants to leave this work and work from the bottom up in the hotel industry.

I realise that I have strayed into a topic that is outside my area of expertise, apart from this small connection that I have with one member of this group. You all need to be treated with admiration and respect. You are not the guys that do those crazy translations of instructions for Chinese (and other) electronic devices!!

As far as scientific writing is concerned, I do know that it needs to be clear and concise, in whatever language it is written, and not overlaid by personal emotion. It should be perfectly possible to translate scientific texts into any language. Is there a problem sometimes of appropriate vocabulary not existing in the language into which you are translating?I am guessing that sometimes new words may have to be invented. Is it sometimes tricky when one translator invents particular words (from other words, of course) and another translator in that field invents different words?

@Robert: “…Who recommended Dietl Lorenz to you? It is widely used at interpreting/translating departments…”

It was some time ago, but if I remember correctly the guys at Grant&Cutler recommended it to me. G&C used to be a big specialist foreign language bookstore in London - I think they have gone bust now. (EDIT: in fact, I see they’ve merged with Foyle’s.)

I needed it for some translating I was doing it for someone as (let’s say) just a favour. I’m not a professional - but the person in question couldn’t afford a specialist.

Yup, German lawyers - those guys fall far short of Goethe! :smiley:

@ Robert

So I spent the day in Wiener Neustadt shooting Austrians. That was just a warm up to writing this post!

I asked you if you could tell us which very strong views you think I hold about translating and interpreting because I was pretty sure that what you think I have said will not correspond to what I have actually said. Given your more recent posts, this is clearly the case.

“I tried to explain how you can still interpret something accurately and correctly while not being able to comprehend every single detail of the underlying scientific logic.”

What do you mean with ‘tried’? You explained it early on and nobody has expressed any doubt about this fact. I wouldn’t know myself, but I will take your word for it.

"Colin mostly argued along the line that he practically excluded the possibility of having a scientific presentation translated/interpreted correctly unless the scientist “dumbed it down” to what he called baby talk. "

It is hard to know where to start here. There are almost as many mistakes as words in this sentence (an exaggeration of course). I have never excluded anything. I have said several times that I don’t know if really technical science talks can be accurately interpreted. Did you read all of my posts? If so, you must have read this sentence, which I wrote on a post on the previous page

"I am not saying that real technical science talks cannot be interpreted reliably, I don’t know. "

If you have read this sentence, how can you possibly think what you wrote in the above quote? Now moving on to the baby talk thing, please reread the post in which I used the term ‘babytalk’, and please please please try to pay attention to the context in which I used it. It had nothing to do with interpreting or the ability of interpreters. I was at that point talking about the language that I suspect scientists use when giving talks at the UN where they will probably not be addressing an audience of specialists in their field. I only used the term babytalk to illustrate that it was very simplified compared to what they would use talking to specialists. Once again, nothing to do with interpreting there.

"And that is simply not true. My friend is a medical doctor and works at a research institute. I sometimes translate studies carried out by medical scientists. Some of these studies are published in magazines that are peer-reviewed scientific journals as well. "

This example and all the talk afterwards within that post are irrelevant because I never said that papers cannot be translated. I would be interested to know if you read the post on the previous page in which I wrote

“It is clear that translating science, even the stuff of the most technical nature is possible. As I said on the other thread, there are some journals in physics that publish papers that are not in English and have them translated.”

I speculated a bit in one post about the translations potentially containing mistakes, and you seemed to agree that this could be a problem.

So let’s have a look at these “very strong views” you think I hold about translating and interpreting. I have said very clearly that translating technical science papers is possible, and I have very good reasons to think that. So that is my very strong view when it comes to translating. You obviously agree with this very strong view. When it comes to interpreting, this discussion started with me asking you if it was possible to interpret scientific talks, obviously not knowing myself (though I did make a guess when I wrote “My guess is no”). When you said they could be interpreted, I responded that “I will take your word for it that technical scientific talks can be interpreted.” I don’t know if taking a professional interpreter’s word for it can be counted as a very strong view. I then went on to express doubt that the most technical talks can be interpreted, giving clear reasons for this doubt and making it very clear that I did not know what the answer is. Do you call that a very strong view?

@Colin
@Robert

This dispute has the makings of an epic Nerf war: in my opinion the matter should be settled with a 1-on-1 death match between the mad Scottish genius in a lab-coat and the ice cool Austrian Profi-Killer!

Ten darts each - first headshot to win! :smiley:

@ KingKong

If you want, I can try doing a little more trash talk. Here is my first dart

“I don’t know if taking a professional interpreter’s word for it can be counted as a very strong view.”

Or should I say a professional misinterpreter???

Burn!

@ Robert

I should forward you an interesting email I got today from the head of the research project I am employed by. The email was for everybody in the project and was saying that he will be giving a talk (probably in English) at a meeting of the Deutsche Physikalische Gesellschaft in Berlin next week. He wanted to know if any of us want to send him some of our results for him to present. Here is a quote from the email

“The audience will be “physicists”, but not specifically “astrophysicists”, so it shouldn’t be too technically “astronomy related” but can easily use good physics language”

You see, he is giving a talk at a meeting of professional physicists and is warning us about using technical language that the physicists won’t understand. Do you think that if you were at this talk that you could tell that he was speaking in a simplified way? Here is a talk he gave at a conference last year for astronomers working within the field of young stars and planets.

Does this sound like a techincal talk to you? This is a simplified review talk in comparison the kind of real technical talks I have been talking about in this thread. Based on what you say, I am sure interpreters can do this talk (if there was a way to pay them). Probably most of the people in the audience didn’t understand it. I didn’t understand huge parts of it even though this is basically reviewing the project I am working in (partly this is because I got completely trashed the night before; during this talk, I was sitting somewhere to the right of the camera trying not to chunder (I failed)).

(To be clear, this post is not about the abilities of interpreters to interpret technical talks.)

ad Colin: (…) …professional misinterpreter… (…)

:slight_smile:

Well, you seem to think very highly of my misinterpreting skills. Thanks for the kudos :slight_smile:

Seriously, I’m sure I often misinterpret people. With you this seems to happen more often than with others. We could write hundreds of pages and we’d disagree on certain things and probably agree on many more.

Maybe I came across a bit harsh, if I did, I offer my apologies :slight_smile:

I am convinced that anything, absolutely anything can be translated and interpreted under certain circumstances. I never said that I or the colleagues I know would be able to do all of this. I’m convinced, however, that it can be done and that was the general question.

Whatever comes out of your mouth or that of any other expert of any other field can come out with equal accuracy of the mouth of a trained, experienced and - this is very important - properly briefed interpreter. There is no reason whatsoever why this should not be possible.

I have a standard phrase for people who complain about supposedly “bad” translations and interpretations: People get the kind of interpretation and translation they deserve.

This is only my personal opinion and certainly not a motto of our professional associations ;-))

What do I mean by that? Unless we talk about some rather general presentation, an interpreter should be given the presentation beforehand (the full presentation not just an abstract of a few lines). He should have the opportunity to personally contact the speaker BEFORE the presentation in case he has any questions with regard to the presentation. He should be given a list of technical terms, some sort of terminology normally used by the company, group of scientists, researchers etc. working in that specific field.

In addition, any serious interpreter will do his own research on the Internet, with the help of dictionaries etc.

If a speaker fails to offer this kind of support to the interpreter, he shares a big responsibility for any potential disaster. (I’m talking about highly specific presentations here).

If someone wants his speech to be interpreted, he will have to make sure he gets his message across without resorting to some sort of “expert code language” which is only comprehensible to a very small group of people. Why someone would want to do that in the first place when he can convey the same message in other words which are comprehensible to a wider audience of experts, I don’t know, but that is not my business.

So, yes, you will talk to your “science buddies” of your own group in a different way compared to how you’d talk to “outsiders”. If you want to use terminology that you think is not comprehensible for experts outside of your field of specialty or translators/interpreters it will be your job to make sure they either have access to the resources necessary for proper research on their part or you simply will have to forget about the translating/interpreting part.

You can then use English or whatever other language is widely understood by you and your peers to a degree which allows you to follow each other’s presentations in your very own field of expertise.

As for the “simplified talk” issue.

I admit that in many cases I probably would not be able to tell the difference because I lack the professional background. However, I do think that with proper preparation and if provided with the necessary tools of research and, this is essential, the cooperation of the speaker, I could interpret almost any presentation successfully. It is very likely that I would not grasp the underlying scientific concept, but I could still be a valid “assistant” to the speaker when it comes to trying to get his message across even to an expert audience.

As I said before, there are many situations where I would not even dream of accepting an assignment because I feel totally ill-prepared or ill-equipped for the job. There will be many occasions where it will be hard or even impossible to find an interpreter and translator meeting all the necessary requirements for constraints of time, money or other reasons.

I still believe in the general possibility of translating/interpreting anything that any human says or writes.

P.S. While you got my blood pressure in a bit of a turmoil with some of your posts (or my misinterpretations of them), I have very much enjoyed this exchange of opinion.

ad Colin: As for the link to the presentation of your colleague. This is definitely doable by any experienced interpreter. I have had to deal with presentations which were way more technical.

Maybe I can find a presentation I interpreted to show you what I’m talking about (we are normally not allowed to store this material, but I might be able to find something on the Internet. I can’t make any promises, though ;-)).

I find his presentation actually rather pleasant to interpret. His way of speaking is a real “gift” to any interpreter. He speaks clearly, slowly and uses a rather limited amount of technical terms. None of which you can’t find in any decent dictionary.

You should never forget that I, as an interpeter, need not be able to give you a summary of what I interpreted after my job is done. I need not be able to elaborate on what I interpret. You can easily translate “faint young sun paradox” (Paradoxon der jungen schwachen Sonne) without having any idea of what this is about, for example.

And that’s all I have been trying to tell you.

@me mate Robert,
Good on yer! I don’t wanna come off like a broken two-bob watch or anything, but I really appreciate how ya give us the drum ‘n’ all here on Link, and fair crack of the whip. I’d boil the billy anytime with ya or head down the local for a yabber and a coke, or whatever ya poison is. I warn you I’m a bit of a two pot screamer these days, so mostly I stick with the lolly water.

I reckon a few of me sheila friends, and a couple of me mates Bazza (he’s a sandgroper), and Gazza (he’s a Banana bender, but good bloke) would love to have a chin-wag with you down in South Oz.

So anytime you wanna put the knot in the bluey here, give’s a yell and we’ll be off to meet you like a bride’s nightie to see ya. I warn you, me hubby’s silly as a wheel and a bit on the bugle, but he’s still a good bloke though missing some sheep in the top paddock. Mind you, he might go like a stunned mullet if he heard you talk about scientific stuff and interpreting ‘n’ all… :)~

When did Karl Kennedy sign up to LingQ?

“…off to meet you like a bride’s nightie…”

That is a lovely turn of phrase.

Ah, to be young again (and in the sack with a 19-year-old sheila…)

“…Yuck, you’re too old for a 19 year old^^…”

I guess that’s where the “Ah, to be young again” part comes in, Julz.

As for “yuck”, well, perhaps you’re right - there is a kind of sadness about about bitter old men, as anyone who has seen the film “Scent of a Woman” will know.

I am interested to know what a banana bender is. I think I have a pretty good idea.

@I-keep-changing-my-name-Canute: - except you’re neither bitter nor sad!:slight_smile:

ad Julie: (…) …@me mate Robert,
Good on yer! I don’t wanna come off like a broken two-bob watch or anything, …(…)

Now, that is what I call a challenge for a simultaneous interpreter and not any of that lame science stuff.

ad Jay: What is the matter with you?! You think you are “old” at the age of 38? I’m 46 and as happy as a bee :wink:

Don’t give up so easily on yourself. Try to spend half of the energy you put into your sarcasm into looking at the good things you have going for yourself and you might actually find you are still quite a catch.

A nice character and a cheerful heart never age.

Leave the aging part to your body (you can’t stop that anyway) and send your heart and soul on a wild ride through the adventures of life. Who knows, your body might be able to catch up with your wildest dreams :wink:

That What’s-His-Name “sign language interpreter” at a certain memorial service, you know the one, I’d bet he could still pull something off! :)~

@Robert: “…You think you are “old” at the age of 38…”

I recently turned 39…

I appreciate your kind words, I really do. (However I have quite a history of screwing things up - more so than the average person.)

Ich habe aber die Hoffnung keineswegs verloren - durch Gott is nichts unmöglich :wink:

I hope that Colin gets over his
self-confessed childishness and naivety,
which he will do with time,
that Robert remains happy
and self-confident,
and that Jay,
you never lose hope.

And Julie, I hope you never lose your sense of humour and ability to make others laugh!

One of the few phrases I do understand in your amazing collection of Australian colloquial and slang expressions is ‘banana bender’. Simply a person from Queensland, a state in Australia. Queenslanders are made fun of by other Australians by saying that anyone who wanders across the border into Queensland has to wind the clock back a few decades. Queensland grows lots of bananas. Someone has to put the bend in them, you cannot have a straight banana! I am sure there are lots of jokes about Queenslanders on the web if anyone is interested.