Alexander Arguelles - New Polyglot School

While I find the idea attractive from a “fun” point of view, I don’t believe that the school would ever take off. People need to make a living, to support families, and have other goals in life. What jobs would students of this school have after graduation? They would take four years out of their life, learn a handful of archaic languages, and then be tossed into the unemployment lines of tomorrow, or they would need more schooling to develop another skill set, that they could then use in tandem with their language skills.

My suggestion would be to try to teach courses on independent language learning within an already established university, and to try to have students from said university graduate fluent in 3-4 languages+ having another degree.

ad JayB, customic: First of all, sorry for getting back to you so late but I’ve been away (actually, I’m sitting in a booth right now but it is my poor colleague who has to work right now ;-). Secondly, thanks for suggesting me as a potential candidate for taking part in the Professor’s project. I do think it is a great idea and I would not mind playing a role in it, my current work and time schedule permitting (and provided the Professor thinks I could make a valid contribution to his project).

I might actually try to get into contact with him and talk things through. Since I am quite happy with my job as it is now I might not be able to join the “team” on a full-time basis. However, I could also imagine assuming some role of a “guest speaker, tutor” (whatever you want to call it) and would not mind offering my help for free (on an occasional basis) if it helps people who are serious about learning languages.

ad Steve: I’m sorry, but I obviously was not clear about what I was trying to say. I was not suggesting that managers of language schools in general are paid out huge premiums. When JayB was talking about the need to make money I was simply referring to the fact that money certainly is needed but considering the idea behind it I don’t think you need to make the institute a cash cow for managers (I was thinking more in terms of big banks, investment companies, car manufacturers and since I have been working for some of these companies I actually do know what some of these people earn and NO PERSON on this planet can work enough to actually deserve that kind of money). Apart from that, there are schools who provide their managers with quite attractive “benefits”. One of the largest language schools in Europe (it is also big in North America) is infamous for consistently underpaying their teachers while the students pay insane amounts per lesson.

There is no doubt that people working at such an institute need to get paid but I don’t think that this should pose more problems than for any other teaching institution. The question is to what extent voluntary participation of polyglots and other people will help fill any potential gap when it comes to the funding of the project. The Professor is also asking people with a sound business background to get into contact with him and I do believe that experienced fund raisers could help make this project a reality. At the end of the day, people wishing to study at the institute will also have to pay some money.

This is one thing that people need to understand also in times of free access to a lot of resources. If somebody provides a service he ought to be paid for it. I am not a fan of this “all for free” attitude where people just automatically expect everything to be free forever.

I’m not talking about spending a fortune for a language course abroad (even though I attended some reasonably priced courses and enjoyed doing so very much) etc. but rather about people complaining when they are asked to pay a few euros, dollars whatever for services that they keep using and obviously benefit from.

As for classroom teaching I don’t believe it has to be bad per se. Just think of how much progress Richard has made recently in a classroom setting studying Turkish. I have had some good experiences with a few of my teachers at school and at university, even though most of the time I had to invest a lot of effort to make sure my teachers don’t succeed in discouraging me from studying languages :wink:

I see that “institute” more as a place where people can develop some team spirit and feeling of togetherness. As great as the new technologies are, they do constitute a certain risk of us getting more and more isolated sitting in front of our computers, listening to our mp3 players instead of going out there and actually meet people and talk to them.

Besides, I appreciate the opportunity to be guided by a “mentor” when I study languages on my own. Sometimes one of my biggest poblems with learning a new language is the lack of a structured approach which I don’t always seem to be able to provide myself with (for whatever reason - this may be just a personal problem, a characteristic of my own learning approach). There are times where I don’t see the forest for the trees and in such situations it would be nice to have somebody guiding me.

Of course, you can get a lot of help in the “virtual world” and you may even be lucky enough to surround yourself with people who are as passionate (or crazy :wink: about languages as you are. Still, having a brick-and-mortar institution where people can combine the good of the past with the enormous opportunities of the present working on the challenges of the future sounds quite attractive to me.

Basically, I hope the institute will become a place with a clearly practical approach of actually using multiple languages.

P.S. Above I said how much I like my job - I just finished interpreting a presentation by a Norwegian speaker who was talking to the audience via skype without video which makes things much harder for us. But to make things worse he spoke so fast that I could hardly follow him and I actually had to ask him to slow down twice (normally I can’t even do that, but they gave me a special microphone so I could interact with him from my booth) because he started reading typos :slight_smile:

Now, if the Professor had asked me in this situation if I wanted to join his team, I might have actually accepted his offer just to get away from people like this Norwegian scientist :wink: Don’t worry, I’m just kidding - I still very much love my job.

I love teaching and would love to participate in a project like that, but it would be a mistake to assume, as some people may have in this thread, that famous and successful polyglots are necessarily interested in teaching.

Robert said: “(…)even though most of the time I had to invest a lot of effort to make sure my teachers don’t succeed in discouraging me from studying languages”.

That’s the thing I hate most and cannot really understand why such people teach languages at all. The reason I changed faculties last year was that I had extremely bad language teachers there. They did everything in their power to discourage me from learning German. Studying linguistics had been my dream for a very long time and after my experiences there I felt totally powerless and was forced to quit. It was a painful experience for me, one I haven’t yet reconciled myself to. I still cannot talk about it without getting too emotional. Now I’m studying at a different faculty and again, I’ve got that one teacher, who truly deserves to be called an “anti-teacher”. But this time I wised up and I don’t care what’s happening in class, I just learn Turkish on my own. I just won’t be discouraged again.

And that’s why we need inspiration. Hadn’t it been for Prof. Arguelles’s videos a few years ago, maybe I would have never got interested in studying languages on my own. That’s why I support his idea whole-heartedly and hope he’ll finally succeed.

People do need to earn a living . However, a majority of students in North American universities study subjects that will not help them earn a living. I think that the language learning outcomes at such a school would be at least as good as at most university programs. It should result in the learners being able to speak a number of languages, and to read in these languages and thereby to understand these cultures.

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(…) People do need to earn a living (…)

Yes, and the good news is you can earn your living with languages, the bad news is most people are not told how or - even worse - are discouraged by those already working with languages and fearing competition. I still remember some of my professors at my university telling us how useless our study courses were since we wouldn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell to actually work as interpreters. Nice to know that some of those professors now give me a call from time to time to ask me if I’m available

The bottom line is, follow your heart but don’t leave your mind unattended when it comes to choosing your career (don’t even know if that sentence really makes sense in English but I hope you get the message). And even if you can’t make a living with your languages alone they will ALWAYS be an extremely valuable asset in any life situation.

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@Robert: “…As for classroom teaching I don’t believe it has to be bad per se. Just think of how much progress Richard has made recently in a classroom setting studying Turkish.”

Yes. The great thing about being part of a formal study-group is that it gives one a certain sense of focus - it can help to keep people motivated in the longer term.

(Having said that, I still believe that 90% of the actual learning gets done away from the classroom!)

ad lmyirtseshem: (…) LovelanguagesII, I hope your happy to share your advice with me, as I’m not looking to work with the languages which you work with. :smiley: (…)

Even if you were working with the languages I work with I would not mind sharing my experiences with you. Knowledge is there to be spread and not hidden away:-)

I don’t fear competition either and I would be pleased to help people get started as long as they understand that I can’t be some sort of “personal trainer” for them (I am afraid I just don’t have the time for it).

Most of the basic questions I can think of right now I tried to deal with in my videos on my profession which you can find on my youtube site. If anybody is interested in any further questions, I would not mind answering them if you guys provide me with a list of questions. I could start a new thread and ask you to add your questions and after a couple of weeks or so I would answer the questions raised by that time (I think a time limit is necessary to get as many questions as possible within a reasonable period of time).

I have also done an interview with Luca on my profession in Italian but that video won’t be posted until June I guess because he is busy with exams now.

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ad JayB: (…) Having said that, I still believe that 90% of the actual learning gets done away from the classroom! (…)

I don’t know if it was always 90 % in my case but I certainly did the brunt of my learning outside of the classroom. A classroom, however, can provide for a motivating and encouraging framework. I like the idea of a mentor rather than a teacher, somebody who helps me make use of my own potential and shows me how to efficiently share my knowledge and interact with other learners and/or practitioners.

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@Robert

BTW how do you rate audio-lingual courses like Assimil, Linguaphone, FSI, etc?

Do you agree with Prof Arguelles regarding the potential of these for self-learners?

ad JayB: BTW how do you rate audio-lingual courses like Assimil, Linguaphone, FSI, etc?

I do think they have some potential but not all of them work for me the same way. I have tried all of the courses you mentioned, but for most languages my favourite self-teach course was a course from Living Languages (I loved the ones for Chinese, Russian, Portuguese, at least the old ones called “From Basic to Intermediate” and their “Advanced Courses”, but I am not really happy with their Arabic Course).

I think I might have misunderstood the Assimil concept because I have not found them particularly appealing. In many cases though the quality of a course depends on the author of the specific book, so some courses might be better for you than others.

Linguaphone provides great content and I love their audio recordings but I dislike the fact that they have split up their course into various books. One book for the complete text in the target language, one book for grammar explanations, one book for vocabulary etc. I find that extremely bothersome and have no idea why anybody would consider this sort of system practical.

FSI courses are a great source. I like their drill system. The only “downside” is that sometimes the quality of the audio recordings isn’t that good because most of them date back to times where tapes were the best you could get on the market, and they are also rather focused on their target group (diplomats, military personnel) as regards the vocabulary they teach (some of which is also a bit outdated).

I have used a lot of self-teach courses and I have come to appreciate them as an excellent tool to get started but the best solution for me would be a “language mentor” who gives me enough time and leeway to study the way I feel most comfortable with using my own material.

Besides, there is one major risk with all those beginner, intermediate and advanced courses and that is that you may keep postponing getting out into the “real world”, actually reading newspapers, books, listening to radio programs, watching TV, doing all the things you’d normally do in your native tongue. We might get caught up in that “artificial” world of graded learning programs for too long.

I remember that as a student when I lacked money to buy all those courses and when most of the modern technological devices we now use were not even available, I just had a basic grammar book, one textbook and a good dictionary. That was it. But I was starting much sooner with reading articles, books etc. I tend to put that off now with all the other material available that keeps me in a “comfort zone”.

@Robert: “…Besides, there is one major risk with all those beginner, intermediate and advanced courses and that is that you may keep postponing getting out into the “real world”, actually reading newspapers, books, listening to radio programs, watching TV, doing all the things you’d normally do in your native tongue. We might get caught up in that “artificial” world of graded learning programs for too long.”

Firstly, many thanks for the detailed reply! :slight_smile:

I can see the point about these courses potentially keeping people in a kind of artificial comfort zone for too long. My own experience of learning Italian was to start with Linguaphone, then move on to the ‘radio-play-style’ course from Passport Books, then (and only then!) move on to watching Italian films, etc. I’m not really sure whether I could have moved to authentic materials sooner? I would have at least needed to complete Linguaphone first, I think…

ad JayB: Yes, of course, you need a sound basis to be able to move on to authentic material. What you did sounds very reasonable. I was more referring to what I, unfortunately, have done way too long in Japanese. I kept buying teaching material and have used very little authentic material even after more than three years. Although I’m quite happy with my Japanese level as it is now I think I could have made much more progress if I had tried to listen to radio programs and watch movies earlier or more consistently. I probably fell victim to some sort of “learning material overkill” in Japanese. Too much material, too little time to actually use all of it or maybe it is just an organizational problem.

Finally, it also depends on what level you want to achieve. There are quite a few languages where I’d content myself with a B2 level (which already is quite high) and for achieving that level good learning material is enough (and will still enable you to successfully interact in the “real world”). Sometimes authentic material is even easier to understand than some course material but will provide for a welcome change in case you are tired of your learning routine.