“Is it really that hard to memorize a handful of fixed sentences and collocations for a Phd when ordering food in a restaurant or buying a train ticket?”
Have a go!
“It’s the algorithm, not Michilini that is fond of clickbaiting titles :-)”
Lol what Algorithm? Let’s get real. It’s LingQ users that love my clickbaiting titles given the amount of engagement I tend to get on those posts compared to less colourful ones. You’re all collectively responsible.
Well, your blog is “not” LingQ. So there are other factors at play here, for ex.:
- search engine crawlers
- the presentation of your blog post titles in the search results of Google & Co
- link mechanisms (your blog → language learning forums)
etc.
“the amount of engagement I tend to get”
Hm, there is “quantity” and there is “quality”.
And then there are “vanity metrics”…
Just look at the “quality” of your comments below to get a sense that something is wrong in this discussion (especially from your side).
For my taste, you 're desperately trying to attract visitors to your language learning blog - and that’s not a good thing.
-
Taiwan
“I live in Taiwan and have met many Chinese learners from all around the world”
Yes, you’ve been living in Taiwan for a few months now… -
Anecdotal evidence
“many Chinese learners from all around the world”
Sure, but it’s still anecdotal evidence. And my anecdotal evidence in various languages (German, English, French, and Spanish) is completely different.
That is:
I’ve never met advanced speakers who were able to deliver presentations in their L2s more or less effortlessly at university who then had trouble ordering a meal, going to the cinema and other simple everyday tasks.
Or to put it differently:
If you can have fast-paced conversations with relative ease in an academic setting for 30-90 min, esp. with fast-paced native speakers, then it’s usually not a challenge to order a meal in your L2.
Of course, there are cases when students/researchers need to read specialized literature for their work in an L2 without really being proficient in the language (especially orally).
But it’s not an advanced language level if you can only read some specialized L2 texts in your field without being able to speak fluently about them, not being able to understand fast conversations of native speakers, etc.
- Numbers
How many international Chinese students have you actually met who are able to deliver presentations in academic settings with ease for 30-90 min and have trouble ordering a meal in Taiwan?
Let’s say, there are 5 of 100.
That’s 5 percent in my math book, so 95 percent have no problems at all with this everyday task.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if that was “often” in your Chinese experience 
-
Advanced language level
C1/2 students who are highly advanced in their L2s and want to study in their host countries usually don’t take language exams there. They just go to academic institutions like the natives do. -
Overgeneralization
You tend to overgeneralize your experience with Chinese.
“In fact the reality for many learners is too messy to be described in this way. For example, learners who meet C2 criteria and can deliver academic presentations in a foreign language often struggle to meet the A2 criterion above when ordering food at a Chinese restaurant or buying a train ticket.” (from your blog post - highlighting by me)
There is a difference between “(many) advanced learners in all kind of L2s” and “the highly advanced C2 learners of Chinese who struggle at A2 everyday tasks and you actually met”…
“they require a high degree of proficiency to be successful in,”
I agree.
And this means also: people who have passed C2 exams according to the CEFR, for example, don’t struggle with simple A2 everyday tasks - at least, that’s highly unlikely.
Thinking about it. Maybe we need a finer “Owl scale” here:
-
1-50 h on Duolingo: good (to get a feel for the L2).
-
51-300 h on Duolingo: worrying (don’t you know anything about language acquisition?)
-
300 - 1000 h on Duolingo: hopeless case, but at least you can post a video on YT that you aren’t even able to order a meal in your L2.
And, by the way, who wants to talk to natives?
Aren’t the phatic communications with others in our L1s not already depressing enough?
- More than 1000 h on Duolingo: Gift owl mode
Original quote from my neighbor
“Yes, it’s useless, but it’s free.
What more could you want?”
And how dare I disagree with elders who have more life experience with gift owls than I have?
- After 5000 h: Talking parrot D1 mode
Duolingo intends to train the imitation of doorbells, smartphone ringtones, etc. in your L2 for learners on a D1 level.
I mean, if talking parrots are able to do it, homines sapientes should be able to do it too, right?
I think it’s kind of ludicrous to suggest I use LingQ forum because I’m “desperate” to attract visitors to my blog. I just find it interesting to spark lively debates.
Some stats to illustrate: In 2023 the number of visitors that have come to my blog through google search is more than 1000x greater than the number who came through LingQ forum.
“the number who came through LingQ forum”
Maybe that should worry you
Anyway, there is also a difference between the
“triggering” of discussions and the “intellectual
quality” of these discussions.
The quality of your comments in many of the debates you’ve sparked
on LingQ so far suggests less of an interest in serious and interesting discussions and more interest in spreading SLA troll charm…
I thought you could do better than that. But maybe I was wrong 
That’s exactly it, it’s not really a meritorious debate from the author happening here. It’s troll kindling and “lot to unpack here” and exit stage right with no unpacking.
@Michilini “Let’s get real. It’s LingQ users that love my clickbaiting titles given the amount of engagement I tend to get on those posts compared to less colourful ones. You’re all collectively responsible.”
You are responsible for your own actions.
Here’s an idea, since you’re so critical of what I’m doing with my blog, why not start your own…?
Sniping from the sidelines is easy.
Lol, this guy is seemingly in the 600 hour range on his 1150 day streak while living in Spain for the better part of a decade and was like I am almost at my goal of having interesting conversations with natives because of Duolingo. To which I was like… I have some points of commentary. After a few days of arguing in his L1, I was just like, I don’t think the fact that you have continued this argument på norsk is strengthening your case.
The comments in here are hilarious. Thanks for another great thread.
A1 CEFR is not a pure beginner or absolute beginner level as the blog says.
A0 is the level of an absolute beginner. A1 is an actual attainment of rudimentary beginner level skills.
If you are brand new to Japanese, and you don’t believe me, crack open the Beginner 1 Japanese version of Gulliver’s Travels: Login - LingQ
Listen to it without reading the transcript or an L1 translation.
After you’ve listened to it, give me a few details about the battle scene with the neighboring country of little people. Better yet, let me know if you could even figure out when the battle scene began!
Then, come back to this post and say “I am an A0, not an A1”. Or, in Japanese terms, you go from having no Skillz to the attainment of an N5 level. You aren’t an N5 the second you crack open your first Japanese lesson. That comes after you’ve learned a few things Grasshopper.