One of the ideas that I like, that it will be helpful not to pay attention to pronunciation at all while practicing speaking.
I’m a little bit proud of how I can imitate sounds when simply repeating right after a native speaker. And that is a cause of stiffness, because I haven’t actually mastered the sounds, I still need a concious effort to make them right, so I have to allocate attention between speaking and pronuciation.
This thread has ended up being very interesting and addressing topics that come up very often in discussions about language learrning. Besides, the OP has asked me about my reply below, so I’d like to put my two cents in, in case it may help someone.
In my opinion, it all depends on interests, content availability and, most important, goals.
That’s why I’ve been in the “two sides” of this debate. I’ve spent a lot of time just reading novels on Lingq. but I’ve also gone through periods of mostly watching video content and times in which I’ve been mostly speaking with natives.
t_harangi and Aronald have argued in favor of reading, their argument is that they’re more “vocabulary dense”, so you can learn more words in the same time. That is very true.
The OP is mostly interested in watching series. because he likes the kind of colloquial, rapid-fire, slangish vocabulary they use, the variety of accents and ways of speaking and he find their content engaging. That is a very good point as well.
My main point is that both approaches may work, when done correctly, that the absolute best is an appropriate combination of both and that what you concentrate on ultimately depends on your goals and interests. To illustrate my point, I’d like to review the different approaches mentioned in the thread and how they, while all being very effective, relate to different goals. So, I will mention what the approaches are and comment what goals they fulfil. I may be wrong about the goals and, if so, please correct me. This is a bit of an exercise in understanding fellow learners, which is always a risky thing to do.
Needless to say, this is no criticism at all. Let me make it clear that I admire both t_harangi’s and Aronald’s achievements in language learning and appreciate their input to our community.
t_harangi’s method:
Often Assimil, then novels in both written and audio formats, in the beginning usually comparing with the English version. The novels are usually translations into his current target language of English-language bestsellers.
This is a very solid, time-efficient, streamlined method. It is based on reading and listening to the same material, beginning with a structured approach that teaches grammar through reading, then progressing to more complex material. A big advantage is that it allows to set very clear goals: once you get to Xxxx words in a given language, he can be very certain that his level is pretty high, because he learned through this structured method in real context. He can also be sure to keep a good balance between listening and reading comprehension. However, conversation (output) doesn’t seem to be an important part of the method. t_harangi doesn’t mention immersion periods, either.
If I’m not wrong, t_harangi’s main goal is to learn a language as a new skill. That is, none of the content he uses is an end in itself, it’s all a means to an end: He’s not particularly interested in reading those novels in th TL or in understanding e-books, much less in reading Assimil. Besides, after he becomes proficient in a language, his plan is to go on and learn a new one. That’s a new skill that he would master. This is a wonderful goal: learning a language is enjoyable and a great way to train your brain. He doesn’t seem to be particularly interested in visiting or living in the countries whose language he’s learning, watching original films, reading their literature, working in them and so on. His method is perfect for his goals. It’s also very solid so it would be also very recommendable for beginners who are not sure what to do, until they find their own method.
This method, however, is not such a goof fit for those who are mostly interested in the culture or in traveling/living in the country or whose goal ist to enjoy some specific content, such as reading original literature or watching some kind of media or understanding songs. or keep up to date with the situation in the country. I don’t mean it won’t help you do that, I mean that it’ll take longer and the method doesn’t take advantage of the motivational boost of engaging in such a content.
Aronald’s method:
Although he’s arguing in favor of the same ideas as t_harangi here, his method and goals are, in fact, pretty different. He doesn’t seem to be so interested in Assimil or similar structured material. He goes through some beginning material to get to a good basic level and then he begins as soon as possible to read literature originally written in the target language. He doesn’t go out of his way to find audiobooks that match what he’s reading and listening comprehension is much less of a priority than reading fluency. He is also not especially interested in practicing conversation, at least early in the process.
Again, this is a very efficient method. In sharp contrast to t_harangi, reading for Aronald is not just a means to an end. One of his goals, maybe the main one, is to read great original literature in his target languages. This in turn implies getting to know the culture from which that literature arises. Often, not even the current culture of the country but a historical one, e.g. that of Tolstoy’s or Dostoevsky’s. For him, it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever to read Harry Potter or Dan Brown in Russian. Not because it’s inefficient or detrimental, but because it is absolutely foreign to his goals.
After he learns the language, he plans on going back to read more literature in it, not simply moving on, even if he tackles a new language. He would also like to visit the countries where his TL is spoken, which implies going through some immersion process eventually, but it’s not especially urgent and he’d prefer to wait until his level is relatively high.
Steve’s method:
Steve usually has a definite interest in some aspect of the culture, that he wants to know about, very often their history, sometimes the political situation. sometimes its literature. He reads a lot but listens more; he uses structured material very sparingly. He doesn’t read translations of English books. He definitely wants to speak the language actively and visit the countries, so he finds tutors to speak with relatively early in the process, although not from the very beginning. He often goes through immersion experiences. Nowadays he usually learns a new language as a “skill” to add to those he already masters (similarly to t_harangi) but he often goes back to an already “learned” language, either for a visit to the country or to record a video, and so on. He doesn’t mind stopping his learning to concentrate on a different new language or to brush up on an old one.
My method:
My interest in my TL’s varies a lot. Just to mention the languages I learn on Lingq: I want to learn Russian the best I can because I’m interested in the culture, know many people there, travel there as much as I can and I occasionally collaborate professionally (unpaid so far). On the other hand, I’m not that crazy about learning perfect Japanese. I like Japanese media and enjoy understanding them a bit and I find its history interesting but I don’t plan on becoming an expert and I’ll probably never travel to the country and may never have more than very simple conversations in the language. I also don’t plan on mastering several thousands kanjis, a couple hundreds are enough. I never learn seriously a language to add a new one to my known languages (although I may dabble a bit). I’m seriously considering to stop learning new languages and I much prefer to improve those that I’m very interested in.
Even in my “serious” languages my method varies a lot. I do like structured, reading-based courses in the beginning (mostly Assimil), although I know they won’t take me very far in complicated languages (they do for more similar languages to my native tongue). I spend a lot of time reading because it’s an efficient method but also because I enjoy it and because it helps me to learn about the culture, always original literatue or, at the very least, occasional novels in languages that I can’t read (read one Murakami novel in Russian), never translations of American bestsellers, much less original Spanish, French or German literature. I never listen to the audio version of the book I’m reading. I prefer to just read on Lingq (after the first beginning period) and then watch videos that I find interesting, even if I don’t understand everything. After I became confident in Russian, I stopped reading on Lingq and began Japanese but Russian is still my main goal. I’ve been mostly watching films, videos and so on for some time. Now, I’m concentrating on talking with natives. I’ve been trough several immersions in Russia an I’ll do it again as soon as the occasion arises.
In Japanese, I went through Assimil, I’ve read some beginning to intermediate lessons on Lingq and then I went on to watching simple Anime and then read transcripts on Lingq. I won’t be reading novels in Japanese at least for some time, because a) it’s very challenging and, as I said, it’s not my priority; b) they are difficult to come by (in sharp contrast to Russian) c) I am interested in understanding anime because I enjoy it (I know it may be weird for someone like me, but there you are), so understanding anime is in fact a goal for me, not just a means to an end. I’m confident that watching anime is a good method to achieve a decent level in the language, in particular for listening comprehension. In the meantime I’ll also become very fluent in reading the kanas and some kanjis and I could speak enough if I really need it. If I ever want to read fluently or blow up my vocabulary, I’ll have to read more substantial content at some point If I want to speak fluently, i’ll have to practice that.
So, there you are, mikemcgann, the four of us are very “reading-heavy”, to put it that way, but are also very different. All those methods work well as a way to master a language in general but are at their best when they fit in with one’s personal goals.
What are your goals? Do you plan to visit Spanish speaking countries often? Are you interested in their culture? Is one of your goals actually to watch Spanish-speaking media? If it is, definitely do so. Consider that adding some “serious” reading is probably a good idea, because it is such an efficient method, it really boosts your vocabulary and it may help you get to know the culture but if you are mostly interested in communicating with native speakers or really like the series or the music, don’t hesitate to devote a large part of your time to that kind of content. Try to make it as enjoyable as possible wich, yes, implies watching first the series, then reading the transcript, as you mentioned.
My advice, if I understood your goals correctly, would be:
a) Alternate between interesting original thriller novels, as Pérez-Reverte’s and watching series: first watch a bit using subtitles an stopping where necessary, try to pick up as much as you can, then read the transcript on Lingq. When you feel confident, try watching first without subtitles or with Spanish ones, then turn on English subtitles when necessary.
b) Once you get to an Ok’ish level, consider finding a conversation partner and go through some immersion experience, for example by signing up for some activity you like in a country that you like, something meant for natives: hiking, dancing, kayaking, photography, …
If I’m wrong about your goals or your interests, try some of the other methods, they all work very well. Or mix and match. Notice that, although I’ve stressed the differences to help you make an informed decision, all the methods have a lot in common, which is what make them effective: they all have you expose yourself systematically to comprehensible, compelling, real content in the language.
En todo caso, le deseo mucho éxito con el español y, sobre todo, que lo pase muy bien aprendiéndolo.
ftornay, I’d say you nailed it with the descriptions. either i’ve dropped more hints in my posts over the years than ive realized or you’re very good with subtleties 
One of these days im going to update my profile to give a little background information on myself so people kinda know where im coming from. just to add to your post and give some more information, my goals are very different language to language and have changed over time:
russian
- near native level reading ability across all written forms. russian is the only language that i really felt a deep desire to learn (because of russian culture, soviet classical piano music/musicians, history, etc), but after using lingq i really started to love the language learning process and decided to add a few more languages.
- c1 in listening comprehension and b2 speaking
- reading has always been the first priority and i didn’t really concern myself with doing much listening until maybe the last 6 months
- i have no timeline for seriously speaking the language (ironically, yesterday i was texting this russian girl from krasnoyarsk, who i met while spending some time in southern ukraine a couple years ago, and told her ill need a speaking partner one of these days. it also helps that she looks like a model haha)
- id like to visit st petersburg and other parts of russia but i want to be solid b2 in speaking before then in order to get the most out of the experience
spanish
- c2 in reading
- solid b2 in speaking and listening
- i live in the US and spanish has become important over the years. id also like to spend several months living in mexico and puerto rico within the next 12-18 months or so.
french
- c2 in reading
- solid b2 in listening and b1 in speaking
- i visited france a couple years ago and really felt like i should learn the language. i like the cultural aspects of france and learning french feels like pretty low hanging fruit for a native english speaker with a lot of experience in spanish. the goal was to get russian and spanish at high levels before starting french, but it played out a little differently.
arabic (msa)
- b2 reading so that i can read news articles and history
- b1 listening and no desire to speak in msa. i think i’ll eventually focus on the levantine dialect but that’s a few years out (or at least it is if i can do my best to hold it off until then).
- i have an interest in middle eastern culture and one of my best friends is a native persian speaker (for some reason i didn’t choose farsi). another really close friend is a native moroccan arabic speaker (for some reason i didn’t choose moroccan arabic)
id like to learn either mandarin or japanese (leaning toward japanese) but that is pretty far into the future (maybe 5 years out). i already have too many languages on my plate at the moment for how much time i have available per day to devote to languages.
so in the end, my approach is heavy reading (adult fiction/literature) and listening comprehension (at a conversational level), but also being to speak to a b1-b2 level in order to make traveling easy and getting the full experience of the language.
I simply find your posts interesting, so I pay attention and I’ve ended up having some idea of your method. Besides, I can relate to the decisions you’ve mae.
Thank you for the elaboration, it’s very useful. Of course, I also already knew about your interest in the piano: your profile picture leaves no doubt. Btw, I’ve visited the Chartreuse in Mallorca (Cartuja de Valldemossa) where Chopin spent some time with Georges Sand. You may want to add it to your travel plans:
https://www.mallorca.org/images/obj/zoom/69_164.jpg
Ive taken your advice and purchased my first proper Spanish book, la silencio de la cuidad blanca with audio ill import it into lingq And read a chapter then listen
It’s funny that you mention that because my sister and I are planning a trip to France and Spain next summer and are planning on visiting Mallorca. I can’t go out there and not see it :). Also, his preludes might be my favorite set of music ever written (which he wrote at Mallorca if you don’t already know that).
When I was in Paris a couple years ago, my friend that I stayed with lived only a couple blocks from Père Lachaise. That was a great experience for me. Chopin had the most decorated grave in the famous cemetery and I was happy to contribute to it.
Also on that same trip, I was at the Louvre and randomly ran into a portrait of Chopin painted by Delacroix which also happened to be my facebook profile picture for like 10 years. You can imagine the feeling.
Wooooowwwww!!!
Only on on the first chapter, but there’s so many unknown words it’s unreal, which could only be a good thing. so many descriptive words and tonnes of verbs Etc. Thank you for your recommendation. I think if you can manage target language literature then you could probably manage most things in the target language
Each author tends to have favorite words and phrases that they use. So you’ll see those over and over and eventually toward the end of the book you’ll know many of them. Then you move to a new book (different author) and you’ll find a whole new set of words =).
I think it may be good to also branch out into news, or favorite topics in a non fiction (or maybe fiction in some cases). If you are interested in conversing with folks. There’s a lot of vocab one can find in the news that might be rare to find it fictional books depending on what the topic of the book is about.
it also might be out of your range at this point. with only 1000 known words i think it could be too overwhelming. at your stage it’s probably good to read transcripts of interviews or wikipedia articles of things that you like. interviews are a great way to learn conversational language.
To be fair, I’m a little strict with moving words to known, there’s times where I’m breezing through things I’ve imported into lingq without checking the meaning of words much but I keep them in yellow. well, it’s not that I’m strict it’s just I’m not really focused on “known words“ I focus on words read and and hours listened
that’s a good way to handle it. i think what really matters is how long it takes to read and understand a 2000 word lesson since this is a good way to normalize difficultly from person to person. if it takes 2 hours then it’s probably too difficult. if it takes 15 mins then it’s probably too easy. i like to hang out in the 30-45 minute range. that seems to be nice balance for me, but it also depends on what youre trying to improve. if you’re looking for conversational fluency, then reading + listening to lesson involving dialogue that you can understand at full speed (or close) is probably a good level. if youre looking to increase vocabulary then taking the lesson a little slower with more unknown words is preferred. i used to hang out in the vocabulary regime but lately ive been focusing more on the conversational level reading + listening to bring my listening comprehension higher and then transition into speaking.
mikemcgann ,
There is a translation tool available in a lesson. You can edit it. You can add English translation there then it will be available in your lesson. First read the translation in English then read simultaneously in Spanish. Or if you have an audiobook open in a separate window, let a narrator read it for you. Just give it a try and see if you are understanding the plot and enjoying it. The first two novels in German I read this way.
I enjoyed the experience.
The method I described above is rooted in this practical approach!
Hi mike., I’m glad to hear you’ve decided to give books a try! I’ll be very curious to hear about your progress and how your experience compares between books and subtitles on the long run.
And “Ciudad Blanca” is a great book series. I actually just finished reading the final book of the trilogy this week. Once you read the 1st book you can check out the film version of it on Netflix as well — not the best adaptation, but it’s a pretty good movie.
Ended up being a really good suggestion this 
currently reading la silencio de la cuidad blanca and Harry Potter, complete opposites but I’m thoroughly enjoying them. There’s no need for me to guess what’s happening in scenes like I do when reading the script of a film. The audiobooks are really clear and easy to follow along with the book. Thank you 
Would you recommend I read a chapter on lingq then listen to the audiobook while reading on my kindle at the same time. Then move onto the next chapter? or would you say it’s best to repeat the chapter a few times first before moving on? What’s worked best for you ?
I focus on knowing the plot and reaching to the conclusion asap. I never repeat chapters until I move on. However, I still like reading my next book of the same author because of repetition of words/phrases that I looked up in the first book. (due to author’s favorite choice of words/phrases).This way I will acquire words in context naturally. Nothing is set in stone. Always do trial and error process and see if you are enjoying it or not. Enjoyment is the main factor. If you like repeating a chapter before moving on with the next chapter then why not, however, it will be a slow process of going through a book this way. As I focus on the meaning, language will follow itself. You do not “force” your subconscious mind to acquire the language it will take its due process. For me, once I am done with one book, I move on with the next one without going through any chapters more than once. Again follow trial and error approach and see what goes well with your personality.
There are a ton of words in Russian that I can remember the sounds of but I have no clue of the meaning. The meaning has not yet attached itself to the sound.
I hypothesize that this is what happens in the brains of babies: they hear a sound repeated over and over. Their brain “notices” that sounds and remembers it.
Then the baby experiments by saying that sound and observes how the subjects in it’s experiment respond (usually the parents). Based on the results of the baby’s experiment, the baby guesses the meaning of the word.
Armchair philosophy…
My method is probably somewhat wierd considering lingQ is mostly pitched as a “learn by reading” app.
I don’t in fact read at all. I am capable of sounding out the words in cyrillic if I try hard enough but no way can I read at anything like normal reading speed the way I can in English, French or Spanish.
But that’s not my goal. I want to understand spoken russian only.
So I’m using the written text as placeholders to allow me to click on each word to “hear” the sentences. It seems to work to allow me to learn grammar more or less by osmosis without too much pain.
Otherwise I just brute force mp3s of the russian frequency list in anki.
^^^ this method worked for me earlier in the year to get to high intermediate listening comprehension in French so I’m trying it out with Russian now because I want to be able to understand “better than us” on netflix without subtitles.
Holy crap. That’s some rockstar shit right there. Kudos bro.
Interesting. I can’t compare the methods because I haven’t fully done your method. What I’ll say is that I have noticed this time around that I can remember almost the entire story and the corresponding text from each of the stories. It seems to me, however, that they’re locked into distinct groupings related to the story only. Whereas my list of frequency words is spread over everything. Up till now I believe that natural input (reading is somewhat unnatural) is optimal. I do, however use lingQ as a necessary compliment. There is a natural limit to how much you can force into your brain via SRS. It’s about 25 words a day. Any more the number of repetitions explodes, so there is no alternative but to try something else for more input because your brain just can’t handle more.
That said, this next round when I tackle Mandarin I might do lingQ first for a couple months before I start doing anki to see how my progress compares.