The elusive first 2,000 words in a language

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Seasonal merriment has been caused in the UK by new curriculum suggestions for updated vocabulary acquisition in school language learning.

Until 2004 there was a requirement to take an examination in at least one modern language at age 16 [the GCSE General Certificate of School Education]. That hurdle was also often a requirement for University entrance after the age of 18. Predictably perhaps, the take-up of any languages at GCSE and at University has subsequently plummeted. However, language learning continues to be part of school education requirements between the ages of 11 and 14 and these new guidelines attempt an adjustment to modern circumstances, searching in particular for what could be described as the “holy grail” of the first 2,000 words in the target language.

Lessons in French, German and Spanish, which are based on teaching those 2,000 words “of the most common nouns, verbs, adjectives and adverbs used in real-life conversations”, are therefore being reviewed. It is said that “Generations of teenagers have learnt how to ask how to get to the town hall in German or tell French interlocutors that they enjoy ice-skating” but this is no longer appropriate. Until now lesson plans have apparently been built around the “challenges of imaginary holidays abroad”, including booking a hotel room, asking the way to the youth hostel or professing an interest in swimming. So here are the some of the suggested upgrades.

The list of most common words and phrases in German “now includes: social, TV episode, it’s all the same (to show indifference), mobile phone, boring, lesbian, non-binary, to lose weight, content or plot and to get on someone’s nerves.”

In French the vocabulary includes “politics, happiness, love, left-wing, right-wing, airport gate, to protest or demonstrate, to send back, to remove, delete or cancel, diversity, Eid, how’s it going, and downloading.”

In Spanish there is vocabulary including “wonderful, day, thing, year, time, life, sports match, society, career, conflict, scene of a film, grade or mark, diet, gender, philosophy, shopping, deadline and sandwich.”

The comments from readers, sometimes rich in nostalgia, under an article in the Times [of London] entitled “GCSE languages pupils to stop asking ‘où est la piscine?’ were certainly entertaining. One immediate contribution, earning high approbation because it clearly triggered so many memories, was “That’s all well and good, but how am I going to find out where the pen of my aunt is now? Especially if she may have left it on the table of my uncle…”

The vocabulary lists of the past had their enthusiasts. The requirement to learn the French phrase from a 1914 textboook “The postillion has been struck by lightning” led to it being used as the title for Dirk Bogarde’s memoirs. Several commentators pointed out that being able to order food or find the local swimming pool might actually be more advantageous than discussing some of the “diversity” issues, topics that several native speakers attested they had never required. So what is important may vary with circumstances? One commentary from a reader describing herself as “a working class girl who passed the 11+ and went to grammar school” [the notorious but now largely historical British examination taken at age 10 which divided the cohort, usually along class lines] encountered as one of her “first phrases” in French at school the clearly vital request “Où est la bonne?’ Where is the maid!”

Learners of compulsory school Latin may also have enjoyed the recollection of that critical phrase “Woe be to Sextus, for he has soiled his toga again”.

No doubt this “reform” makes sense in an era of “corpus linguistics research” but one French languages teacher triumphantly recalled being able, finally, to use the test of creating “a reflexive verb in the past tense plus the usage of “il y a” for “ago”. That was at a tasting in a champagne house when she could answer the question as to what time she had last brushed her teeth! A teacher of German on a school trip had to deal with a tearful teenager who had been asked if she would like to eat an “Ei” for breakfast…

So what is vital vocabulary in language acquisition? The debate continues. One sage suggestion was that, in schoolboy French, the appropriate practical substitution for “où est la piscine” might be “òu est le pissoir?” but is that a possible usage in “non-binary” language?

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Hopefully they will also decolonise the curriculae. Yes, that was sarcasm. I am sure this woke obsession, for want of a better term, will fade in five years or so, leaving future generations rather puzzled.

There is a tendency, especially among YouTube language celebrities, to disparage school language teaching. In truth school students don’t study language for enough time, and most are not interested anyway. I studied French from 11 to 16 and hated it. But it provided me with a strong foundation for later study of the language. It’s all very well telling students how to ask for the nearest non binary lesbian boarding gate, but to be honest just teach a foundation and let them use a dictionary, or an online translator as and when they don’t know the right words. The current GCE French study books look fine to me.

Incidentally, when I was applying for university, 45 years ago, the only ones that required a foreign language were Oxford and Cambridge, unless you were applying to study a foreign language of course.

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This isn’t being taught anywhere. It’s just a scare tactic to frighten low IQ individuals.

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This is the whole point of Lingq. In school, one has c. 150 hours of language instruction per year. In truth, this is a fantastic amount of time that is unfortunately spent engaging in a bizarre ritual where a teacher and a couple dozen students get together and speak in their native language about their target language. If done differently, 150 hours each year over the course of six years, even if it is after the critical period has closed, will yield considerable ability in the target language, and that’s without homework. It would also generate the interest in the students, who could explore things that are meaningful to them.

However silly any of this is, nothing in the conservative, indeed reactionary, grammar-translation methods used by schools has changed. The Times isn’t interested in publishing that bit, though; it wouldn’t appeal to their audience.

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I’ve stated this in other threads but will repeat it here. I had English for 10 years at school, the latter 5 completely in English. When I was leaving school I was able to relatively fluently use the language and understand academic papers. The issue isn’t the system, it’s the people working there. There is nothing hindering a teacher to use the target language only in class.

In regards to the original post. Which words are important for learning isn’t really something that can be answered for all persons. Similar to what skills to focus on. It heavely depends on the aim of learning the language, what one is going to use it for. As this may differ among students and they can’t know themselves before leaving school, I’d agree with @LeifGoodwin that the most important thing is to lay a solid fundament (yes, this includes grammar, too), and at some point let the students expand their skills on their own. I learned a lot of English by killing Nazis in video games and listening to Death Metal. :sign_of_the_horns: :laughing:

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It’s humour, I took it to an exaggerated extreme, not to be taken seriously.

However, as regards your low IQ remark. The current woke craze is all too real, with people including university professors and comedy writers losing their jobs if they say things that the woke mob don’t like. Most people are too scared to speak out. Professor Jo Phoenix sued the Open University after she was bullied out of her job by woke colleagues. She won with a complete victory in court. Amy Gallagher, an NHS nurse, is suing the NHS for preventing her completing a psychiatry course after she refused to agree that she is racist because she is white. The recent official Cass report on the NHS found that the NHS is unacceptably woke, a rather simplistic summary, but accurate. Graham Linehan, co-writer of Father Ted, has not been able to find work for many years after he said that trans-women are not women. He was recently arrested in an airport by five armed officers for a tweet. The judge dismissed the charges. He was also charged with harassing a trans activist, he was found not guilty, in truth the trans activist was harassing him. Professor Kathleen Stock was forced out of her job by a woke mob. Fortunately more and more court cases are being won against the woke mob.

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Firstly, many students do come away from English schools with a good basis in a foreign language. Some go on to study one or more at university.

Secondly, the grammar translation method was used in the nineteenth century to study dead languages. As far as I am aware it is not used in any English schools for the study of modern languages. I started French 50 years ago, not with the GTM, but using the same methods I see in current text books. Thus short stories, graded input, grammar taught as you go along, it all looks very sensible.

Incidentally the Times is arguably the most liberal British newspaper, you might be confusing it with the Telegraph.

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What you are describing IS the grammar-translation method. What did you think it was?

The Guardian is the most liberal British newspaper. The Times is a centre-right newspaper.

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No it isn’t. See for example Approaches and Methods in Language Teaching by Richards and Rodgers.

The Guardian is hard left and extremely illiberal. Melanie Phillips, who I regard as a right wing loonie, used to be left wing and write for the Guardian. She is also Jewish. She left due to the blatant anti-semitism that she alleges she experienced among the staff during editorial meetings. As an example of its extremism, the Guardian promotes a hard line on so called trans rights, contrary to recent high court rulings, and court case outcomes.

If you look at Times Radio, which has the same owners and journalists as The Times, you will see presenters include Ed Vasey (ex Liberal politician), Rod Liddle (socialist), Kathy Newman (left wing journalist), as well as some serving or former Conservative politicians. It also has quite a few ex BBC presenters such as the very woke Fi Glover, who recently promoted so called ‘white privilege’ and said ‘not all men are violent’ on air. It’s a mixed bag, which I regard as healthy. There are valuable viewpoints on both sides of the political spectrum.

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Yeah buddy, you seem to have an agenda on Lingq’s forums, viz., to complain about (a maximalist interpretation of) the ideas behind Lingq and/or your experience with it. You post two or three times a day and so far as I can tell have read everything on here. Have a nice day.

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Okay petal. You prefer personal insults rather than discussion.

I referred you to a university textbook so you could see a description of the Grammar Translation Method, as you misunderstand what it entails.

I don’t post every day, as one quick example, I did not post between 10 and 19 December.

I do engage in discussion and I do report bugs. For example in sentence mode, when I play the audio, the first word is mutilated. Thus “Außerdem hat mir das Spiel gefallen.” becomes “Auß Auß Auß er erdem hat mir das Spiel gefallen.” That’s a pretty fundamental bug and reduces the usefulness of the product,

I’ve read very little in this forum. I prefer to spend 3.5 hours each day learning languages, which I find difficult, but at times rewarding.

Bonne journĂŠe.

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I find LeifGoodwin one of the most consistently intelligent and useful commenters here.

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Couldn’t find that book in kindle but came across another similar type, a summary of 30 methods, called Scott Thornbury’s 30 Language Teaching Methods Kindle eBook: Cambridge Handbooks for Language Teachers . so far, very interesting to read.

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Just google it. There is a pdf version online. It seems that Cambridge Books doesn’t provide an ebook version. Amazon has a paperback version available (3rd edition).

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I was travelling so it was more convenient to browse and get something on kindle.

I also don’t really like scanned or OCR-ed books due to typos and other issues,

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Thanks, I’ve ordered it in paperback. The sample I read suggests it is similar content but written in a less academic style. It’ll be nice to read another perspective on the various techniques. There’s even one that uses coloured sticks.

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I found an older version of the book you recommend in e-textbook version not sure if that would work on kindle. it is being sold at higher price than paperback Approaches and Methods in Language Teaching (Cambridge Language Teaching Library) - Kindle edition by Richards, Jack C., Rodgers, Theodore S.. Reference Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

There are quite a number of these type of books with various level of detail, I feel like it would have been very useful to read any of them when starting on language learning, it would have saved me a lot of time dabbling in random apps and Methods as I encounter them. thks.

Another book Techniques and Principles in Language Teaching (recommended by someone in comments who found the 30 method book too brief) but the kindle version is expensive.

I like this, quote. It is in-line with using a mix approach and to treat methods as tools.

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I have versions two and three of the Richards and Rodgers book. There is a big difference between them. I agree, I too wish I had read this kind of book before starting French and then German. I still think they miss important aspects of learning. There are some good YouTube interviews with professional linguists that add detail. I like that quote too, it’s recognising that there is no one perfect method.

I’m coming to the unfashionable conclusion that, for me at least. a course has significant benefits. Lessons are properly graded, vocabulary and patterns are repeated regularly, grammar and syntax are introduced gradually and explained. Of course this goes against the ideas pushed by makers of online apps. I don’t consider Duolingo et al to be courses. LingQ would be very useful indeed if used alongside good course material.

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Unfortunately this happens from both sides of the “aisle” these days. In fact, in the US I’d say it has now become a favorite tactic from the side that first railed against it.

However, there’s nothing new under the sun …

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I agree. The rest of this post is off topic, and best ignored by those interested only in language learning. :slightly_smiling_face:

My view, and you might disagree, is that over the last decade or so, social media has polarised society, and as a result we get extreme positions instead of nuance and tolerance. Here in the UK we used to get discussions on TV and radio, experts in their field and representatives from various parties would discuss their ideas, and criticise each other. The listener could then decide who was right, and usually each had something interesting to say. Thus public debate by informed guests allowed the public to form an opinion and vote accordingly. Today we have a representative from a party or group interviewed by a sycophantic social media presenter, who allows the guest to promote their ideas, with no pushback or criticism. No-one points out flaws in their arguments. Often the guest pushes an extreme agenda, be it far left or far right, and because flaws are not pointed out, the listener makes up their own mind on the basis of incomplete or incorrect information. No doubt some of these guests have ulterior motives. The social media presenter gets their clicks, and hence their payment. And then we have bullying. It used to be the extreme left that bullied anyone who expressed ideas they did not like. Now we see the extreme right doing exactly the same thing, albeit with a different modus operandi. I am frightened by how society is changing, and by people I meet who accept these extreme views. Sadly the extreme right is gaining considerable ground. Anyway, back to linguistics …

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