@chellelingo “And it’s no different than a person who is learning English reading Shakespeare.”
You’re not recommending that, are you?
@Steve, I obviously expected you’d say that people should read what they enjoy reading – and you’re right! – but objectively, the Bible is not a very adequate learning tool. But if it’s the only thing that will motivate a learner, then that’s another story, I guess.
@Alexandrec: “…it’s admirable that you can look at religions and religious texts as the potential source for good that they could be, but you can’t deny that they are too often invoked as a justification for hatred, bigotry, discrimination, etc.”
It’s a nice easy accusation to make, Alexandre.
But when was the last time you actually heard someone say: “hey, I’m going to pull out my gun and shoot this person because the Bible just told me to do it”…?
Let me guess - you have never actually heard someone say that, have you?
Me neither! 
Believe it or not, I think most people understand that violent passages in the Old Testament which were written more than 3000 years ago are only relevant in the context of the point in time and historical era in which they were written. They are certainly not to be invoked as a general justification for violent acts today. (And anyone who tries to do this is a criminal or a nutcase who is just seeking a prop for his/her psychopathic personality, IMO.)
For Christians in particular, the Old Testament is always understood in the context of the New Testament.
Alexandre, objectively? But it is all about subjectively when it comes to language learning.
I must say that I find the Bible easier to read than Shakespeare.
@alexandrec “You’re not recommending that, are you?”
Sure! I say read modern and old. I do with my languages. Steve reads older texts with his languages and it doesn’t seem to have hindered him. When I’m learning a new language, I read mostly modern materials. But I don’t see the harm in expanding words and knowledge with older text - and just enjoying them as well. And some people love to read classics as well.
If I learned Arabic I would want to try to read the Koran. When I studied Chinese I read Mao’s Thoughts, (not very deep stuff I might add).
The Bible has been the most important book in large parts of the world for over 2,000 years. The Bible is an integral part of understanding the history of Europe and the Middle East. In my view it is far greater value and interest than the bulk of modern literature. If a person is interested in reading Bible to improve their language skills, how can one possibly be against that, other than for ideological reasons? Ideology has no place in language learning in my view.
@JayB – the passage you quote from me mentions hatred, bigotry and discrimination only, and I stand by that, because I regularly hear that sort of comments being justified by religious reasoning. Obviously, most people wouldn’t, but it’s frequent enough that I would write it again.
I don’t particularly enjoy discussing religion, so I’ll opt out at this point. I continue to recommend that Peter read something else.
ad lmyirtrseshem: (…) Are you serious???
You’re saying that Jews are people who are unable to think for
themselves and that they are therefore deserving of hatred? Are you on
f*ing drugs? I feel truly sorry for the kind-hearted Austrian
people who have to put up with a few bad apples who spoil their
reputation…
(…)
I don’t really know what to say in response to the message I just received from you via my mail account other than that you need to brush up on your English if you managed to completely misunderstand my post. I NEVER EVER suggested anything even remotely close to what you are accusing me of. And as for the message you left on my wall, well I can live without the “respect” of people who don’t even care to think twice before they spill out their hatred against people they hardly know at all. If you had even made the slightest effort to read some of my posts here on lingq you would have known that I’m anything but antisemitic. Gosh, I tried to stay calm but your comment is simply outrageous!
P.S. Thanks to all the other forum members who irrespective of wether they agreed or disagreed with me managed to keep the conversation at a civilized level.
I think lmyirtrseshem misread your post, Robert.
@Robert
In fairness, I think he completely misunderstood what you said. (He has now deleted the post.)
BTW
I think you also misunderstood MY first post - I was definitely NOT suggesting that you are a bigot, or that you have anti-Semitic views! I’m very sorry if I gave this impression.
“…written in intricate and ancient language…”
“…no different than a person who is learning English reading Shakespeare…”
etc…
Being a Bible-virgin, I’ve had to do a bit of research to try to figure out what you’re all talking about. Is the King James version the one everyone is referring to (i.e. “old language”)?
I’m considering reading a bit of the Bible in Finnish. Although I do still have a handful of ebooks to work through, I thought it would be a good opportunity to at least dabble in this book (for the first time!). I have no intention of becoming a born-again (or born for the first time?) Christian or starting a holy war or anything like that, I just might dabble a little bit and see what all the fuss is about, from a literature point of view. If I don’t enjoy them, I can always stop. No harm, no foul 
For Finnish, there appears to be a 1938 (old) translation, and a 1992 (new) translation, neither of which seems to be too archaic (after having flicked through a few sections).
I might try the “Samuel” and “Kings” sections. One question, though. Would reading these “books” make sense if I haven’t read the preceding ones?
ad JayB: (…) I think you also misunderstood MY first post - I was definitely NOT suggesting that you are a bigot, or that you have anti-Semitic views! I’m very sorry if I gave this impression. (…)
As much as I enjoy writing in forums like this one I sometimes doubt it is worth the trouble you sometimes get into. I have calmed down now but the Australian guy’s comment really came as a shock to me especially since I lost half of my family during the holocaust and here he comes calling me anti-semitic. How crazy can the world get?
I have said it so many times before and I’m repeating it here again, I have no intention whatsoever to hurt anybody’s feelings or to attack any kind of groups (religious, political, etc.). What I will continue to do is state my opinion and yes I’m very outspoken and consistent in my rejection of racism, nazism, religious fundamentalism, etc.
I appreciate our discussions very much because they are intellectually challenging (at least for me). I sometimes also enjoy playing with words and this may be the reason why some people misunderstand what I say and/or write. But I’d expect somebody to give me the benefit of the doubt before he attacks me personally the way the Australian forum member did.
Anyway, let’s get back to the original subject. I have read the Bible, the Koran, the Torah and other religious texts. I do that as an intellectual exercise and because I like to know a little bit more about the things I may want to discuss with others. I still don’t think that these texts are worthwhile reading from a language learner’s point of view unless you are into the kind of Arabic used in the Koran (I only read the German translation) for example. The Arabic language used in the Koran is said to be very poetic (something I personally would not be able to say about the German version).
If somebody learning German asked me if I’d recommend the Bible to him as a means to improve his knowledge of German my answer would be a clear “no”.
However, if that person is religious he or she might benefit from reading the Bible in another language than his native tongue. That’s all I wanted to say and I thought I was quite clear about that.
Well, I now try to focus on other things. After all I’m about to leave for the US on a three-week vacation and this is something to really look forward to
Have a great vacation!
ad Peter: (…) I think it all depends on what Robert meant by “they” in “… because they don’t care to think for themselves and…” (…)
Well, I thought it was clear from my line of argument that by “they” I meant people who hate Jews and not Jews. And fortunately most people reading my post managed to grasp what I meant. I will try to work on my English though to hopefully avoid similar misunderstandings in future posts. And thank you very much for your kind words
I’ll confess that I initially interpreted your comment (probably) the same way as IMY did. It didn’t make sense coming from you (based on what I “know” about you) so I re-read it, and then it was clear. It might just be that the sentence in question read that way to Australian ears (or eyes, as the case may be).
“I will try to work on my English though to hopefully avoid similar misunderstandings in future posts.” ← Hahaha
If you feel this way, Robert, then I fear there is no hope for the rest of us! None!!!
ad RickyRuffcutt, JayB, steve: Thanks for your nice comments. I really appreciate your encouragement.
ad peter: (…) If you feel this way, Robert, then I fear there is no hope for the rest of us! None!!! (…)
Well, I am convinced there is much room for improvement especially since I even seem to manage turning myself into an anti-Semite by the way I formulate sentences in English
I re-read the sentence a couple of times and I can see that somebody who does not know me may have misunderstood the sentence but then again my line of argument would not have made any sense if you take Jay’s post into account to which I responded. Besides, not having changed the subject in my sentence I thought it was clear that the second part of the sentence was still referring to “People hate…” and not the object of the sentence which was “Jews”.
Anyway, languages can be tricky. I just hope other forum members having read my post don’t think I’m anti-semitic. I’m signing off now because I need to pack my suitcase for my trip to the US (btw, one of the friends I’ll be meeting there is Jewish :-).
In defense of my initial interpretation of your comment, I’ll also admit that I wasn’t really paying attention to the slightly off-topic discussion you were having with JayB, at least the details of it, which is probably why I didn’t follow your “line of argument” or answer “on your behalf” in response to IMY’s comment. I just briefly read through the comments and that one struck me as odd (the first time I read it).
I hope you have a great trip
I’ve been listening to the New Testament as an audiobook in German. Don’t find the Luther’s Bible much harder to understand than contemporary literature (and it is certainly much easier as a content to read, than works of Thomas Mann are, for instance). However, I guess that the levels of complexity may drastically differ in various translations of the Bible into various languages, just as styles of such translations do.
By the way, there is a great app (available for different mobile platforms and as a website) called YouVersion out there (see http://www.youversion.com). You may use it to switch between different translations of the Bible into a huge number of languages easily.
Peter, being an atheist does not mean that you shall ignore any sources of moral guidances out there and the Bible is probably one of the greatest. Reading different types of moral guidances also neither obliges you to complying with each one, nor to choosing one for yourself, but provides one’s mind with a great source of work to be done.
Even as an atheist, I find reading the Bible can be quite interesting; at least the KJV anyway. As for looking for potential sources of moral guidance though, I much prefer reading reasoned discussion on different philosophical standpoints than the generally more authoritarian style of the Bible which, along with good advice, has some quite abhorrent stuff in there too. Some bits in Deuteronomy make my skin crawl especially…
eugrus: “Peter, being an atheist does not mean that you shall ignore any sources of moral guidances out there and the Bible is probably one of the greatest.”
Oh… I wasn’t going to comment anymore, but I just can’t help it. The Bible likely contains all of the best moral advice there is, provided you already have the moral sense to discard all the horrific deeds it calls for. Still, you are probably right in that it can be a source of moral questioning.