Steve Kaufmann supports Ukraine

Open Forum
21

@ftornay
“For any sanctions to be even remotely fair, they have to be applied for all similar actions, as simple as that.”
No, that´s nothing but idealistic wishful thinking that completely ignores how power politics actually works in international relations (see: Neorealism (international relations) - Wikipedia).

That is: The games that NATO led by the US as an hegemon, Russia as a declining super power and China as a rising super power play is “power politics” of the highest (unethical) magnitude.

And they fight each other (together with their possible allies) on every imaginable playing field (politics, military, technology, media, economy, science, etc.) - of course, this doesn´t exclude occasional cooperation when it´s necessary or useful!

This also doesn´t mean that values such as “security”, “freedom”, “health”, etc. or ethics are completely unimportant, but they are inextricably linked to “ideologies”, “interests”, “power/influence” and “money” (or other resources).

In short, as long as power politics rules no U.S., Chinese, or Russian leader will ever be held accountable for war crimes, etc.
This is only the case with medium and smaller powers!

So when it comes to (super) power politics Orwell´s insight from “Animal Farm” is spot on:
“All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.”

The above doesn´t mean that democracies are as bad as autocratic regimes. Normally they aren´t (because of the separation of powers, fundamental rights of the individual, etc.), but the antagonism “democracies vs autocratic regimes” isn´t equal to the fight of “good vs evil”, “angels vs demons”, etc. There are many grey areas - and, in the end, we´re all humans!

Therefore, the key questions should rather be:

  • Which strategies are effective?
  • How can they be really effective when oil / gas are still flowing from Russia to Europe / the US?
  • And is it really reasonable to expect the change of an authoritarian regime brought about by people driven by sanctions? IMO, this is another variation of wishful thinking, because the military, political, and economic elites (as tightly coupled groups), but not the masses (as loosely coupled groups), must do it!
    etc. etc.

Personally, I´m still “pro-Ukraine and its people,” but that doesn´t mean I´m “anti-Russia(n).” However, I´m definitely “anti-Putin” in the sense of
“There should be not anti-russian propaganda, but anti-Putin. This distinction is very important.” (S.I.)

All in all, we all need more “de-escalation” right now, because the speed of escalation is way too high!

Just my 2 cents
Peter

PS -
Anyone interested in the fatal communication dynamics (beyond good-versus-evil morality, wishful thinking, betrayal stories, blame games, etc.) that have led to our current “Gold War 2.0 mess” should check out Mary Sarotte’s work
“Not One Inch” (she is a Harvard / John Hopkins historian):

22

The hypocrisy and biases of the west are blatantly obvious in this situation and it is good to point that out. Still, there are a lot of people who seem to be unable to talk about the Ukraine invasion and the international response to it and instead will continually change the subject to other conflicts or to western double standards. For example, I tried to talk to a friend of mine from the middle east about all this and all this person could talk about was the Iraq war. This really is a matter of changing the subject because the Iraq war (for example) and the lack of sanctions against the USA and others is irrelevant for the topic of the invasion of Ukraine.

Of course I would love to see this type of response whenever a country attacks another country without an extremely good reason to do so but of course we all know that this is going to depend on who is attacking and who is getting attacked. This inconsistency does not make this response in this case bad. Similarly, rich and powerful people committing crimes without punishment is not a good reason for poor people not to be punished for crimes they committed.

If we really want to talk about hypocrisy that is relevant to the current situation, what about the fact that many western countries like Germany and Austria are still buying tons of oil and gas from Russia, essentially funding Putin’s war machine. Sure the consequences for cutting off Russian oil and gas would be enormous for these countries, but last I heard we were all Ukraine (#WeAreAllUkraine right?) so it certainly would not be so crazy a thing to do given the current situation. People don’t want to do it because they are after all not Ukrainian and don’t care enough about the conflict to accept the consequences, which is fully understandable.

23

“The thing is the woman was a veteran of the Leningrad blockade in 1941 (now it’s Saint-Petersburg). This absurdity tells something.”
If I remember correctly the lady was 77 years old.
How can she be a “veteran” of the siege of Leningrad when she wasn´t even born?

This absurdity is really telling :slight_smile:

24

@ColinJohnstonov
“there are a lot of people who seem to be unable to talk about the Ukraine invasion and the international response to it”
Having studied international relations (focus: security policy / military theory) at a university for many years, I have often made the experience that most people, especially in Germany’s pacifist society, have neither the knowledge nor the military experience to talk reasonably about wars in particular and conflicts in general.

That´s why they often resort to moralistic categories (esp. “good-vs-evil-nonsense”), wishful thinking, fantasies, blame games (“the NATO are cowards”, “the West is hypocritical”, etc.).

This is another example of this lack of knowledge / experience:
“Sure the consequences for cutting off Russian oil and gas would be enormous for these countries,…”

This has nothing to do with hypocrisy, but with strategic consequences:

  • How fast can such a boycott be implemented? And would it stop the war in Ukraine immediately? No, it wouldn´t.

  • Does NATO / the US really want to push Putin into a corner so that he sees no way out? Of course not. That would be extremely foolish, since he has an arsenal of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons.

  • Is it reasonable to bankrupt Russia ? Probably not (keywords: China, the collapse of the whole Russian society, the possible spread of nuclear weapons).

  • Is it reasonable to create a tighter Sino-Russian alliance? Definitely not. That would be another stupid move because NATO and esp. the US want their systemic enemies divided.

“People don’t want to do it because they are after all not Ukrainian…”
No, ordinary citizens aren´t really important in these power-political struggles. In other words, their influence is actually extremely limited. And this is the case in autocratic and democratic (!) regimes.

Apart from that, there are important strategic reasons (see above) why the West doesn´t want to break all ties with Russia. Hypocrisy isn´t one of them - at least in this case :slight_smile:

25

Thank you, Steve, for your support, it means a lot.

In fact, I’d like to say thanks to each and every one who supports Ukraine in this grave hour, when our nation is forced to literally fight for its freedom.

The Ukrainians are grateful for all the help from all over the world, including (and especially) sanctions and weapons. Every package of sanctions imposed on Russia makes it more expensive for Putin to continue his war. Every Russian aircraft taken down, every tank destroyed before it entered a Ukrainian city, every missile shot down before it hit its target means dozens, if not hundreds of civilian lives saved.

Thank you. Thank you all.

1 Like
26

mb you right, but it’s not absurdity, it’s me not having a time to fact check each granny carefully) Still, the human protesting against war is illegal, isn’t this absurdity enough to you?

27

Well, I´m on the “anti-war / anti-Putin” side so I´m definitely not neutral in this regard. But the number of “absurdities” (not simply lies) seems to increase each and every day - on both sides.

Although I have the impression that Putin’s side are the masters of absurdity: Everyone who is against Putin must be a “Nazi”, Ukraine is neither an independent state nor has a tradition of its own, if the Russian army shoots, it´s legal, but if the Ukrainian side shoots back, it´s illegal, etc.).

Nowadays I wouldn´t be surprised if a spokesman of the Russian government would claim that there is no war in Ukraine because Ukrainians disguised themselves as Russian soldiers and try to destroy their own country in order to be able to blame innocent Putin/Russia.

“it’s me not having a time to fact checking each granny carefully”
This old lady was all over the German, English, Spanish, etc. media. I found it very funny that neither Western journalists nor many Western viewers didn´t understand that this narrative was complete nonsense.

So when it comes to war reporting (in general), Western journalists are sometimes so “helpless and clueless” that I want to cry. Motto in this case: “Putin is just mentally unstable, a madman, unhinged, etc.”

The intentions of the journalists may be good, but the path to hell…

“Still, the human protesting against war is illegal, isn’t it absurdity enough to you?”
No, it´s not absurd. This is how authoritarian regimes (compared to stable democracies) operate: They try to crush all opposition.

And at the moment it´s getting much worse for you guys in the Russian Federation:
“Russians face up to 15 years in prison in the future for disseminating critical information about the war in Ukraine. Both chambers of the Russian parliament voted in favor of a law that makes it a criminal offense to pass on “false” reports. President Vladimir Putin signed it into law on Friday evening.” (Aktuelle Nachrichten aus Europa | tagesschau.de - translated with deepl.com).

And since the “Cold War 2.0” has just begun, I agree with Mr. Putin: “You have nothing seen yet!”

So the real absurdity of this whole conflict is that the overwhelming majority of people in both Europe and Russia doesn´t want a new Cold War with unpredictable consequences - and it will probably happen anyway.

But this is nothing new: In World War I, for example, ca. 200 (!) people in Europe decided the fate of hundreds of millons of people. We know how that ended.

And in these contexts “absurdity” becomes a synonym for “tragedy”.

28

Nowadays I wouldn´t be surprised if a spokesman of the Russian government would claim that there is no war in Ukraine because Ukrainians disguised themselves as Russian soldiers and try to destroy their own country in order to be able to blame innocent Putin/Russia.

It is so already. Russians are forbidden to call this a war, the official name is “спец-операция” (special operation). You can get in prison for calling it a war.
And propaganda has claimed nearly what you’ve guessed but gradually shifted to something else.

We have a lot of newlang like that. Not war but a special operation, not an explosion, but a clap, not decline of economy, but a negative rise, not a corruptioner, but a patriot, not a patriot, but an extremist.

29

Hi,
First of all, I want to express my deepest condolences to all the Ukrainian as victims of this terrible war. / Ich spreche allen Ukrainern, die dem verherrenden Kieg zum Opfer fallen, mein tiefstes Beileid aus. / 戦争で大きなダメージを受けているウクライナ人全員にお悔やみの言葉を申し上げます。 I’ve been watching Internet videos both in English and German this week. Many pictures of injured citizens, refugees and collapsed buildings are heartbreaking.
Almost all Japanese are totally upset about the situation. This war has provoked much more anxiety for Russia as one of our neighboring countries for us. There are problems which have not been resolved yet for a long time (like Hopporyodo: 北方領土). Unfortunately, many Japanese can’t have a good impression about the federation of state Russia. This is a reality. There has happened some harassment against Russian shops after this war.
However, I want to believe that the politic and other areas such as culture are to be differentiated. Of course, this seems to be naïve, yet the abhorrent politic doesn’t mean at all that we hate people in that nation, or that we exclude that nation from all over the world forever.
I personally want to learn the Slavic culture. I want to learn Slavic languages, including Russian and Ukrainian. I tried to learn Russian before, but I have given it up soon. However, LingQ makes me believe that I could learn this difficult language again. I just want to learn the language, get to know the Slavic culture deeply rooted in this region, and broaden my perspective.
Thank you for reading my comment.

30

We have a lot of newlang like that. Not war but a special operation, not an explosion, but a clap, not decline of economy, but a negative rise, not a corruptioner, but a patriot, not a patriot, but an extremist

Lol I’m learning a lot of Russian from this

31

“We have a lot of newlang like that.”
Unfortunately, we´ve already seen that in the past, for example in Nazi Germany:

  • “Arbeit macht frei” (“work sets you free”) as a slogan above many Nazi extermination camps: Arbeit macht frei - Wikipedia

  • Or the infamous saying of Karl Lueger, the anti-Semitic mayor of Vienna from the early 20th century: «Wer ein Jud[PB. e] ist, bestimme ich!» (“who is a Jew, I decide”) Karl Lueger – Wikipedia

The same sick logic applies to Putin´s Nazi definition: “If you´re against me, you´re my enemy (called “Nazi”) ready to be killed”.

So we´re back in the 20th century era of “sick words” where

  • “peace” means “war”
  • “liberation” means “extermination”,
  • “real democracy of the people” means “dictatorship”
    etc.

I guess Putin´s regime is a fan of Orwell´s “1984” and “newspeak” (Newspeak - Wikipedia).

In short, Putin´s regime is simply “doubleplusgood” in the sense:
“The only good human being is a dead one.” (George Orwell)

Thanks, Vladimir, for reminding us! :wink:

32

@Peter,

Exactly that, for some reason I’ve confused -speak with -lang.

33

What´s not to like about Putin´s “exciting vision of the future”?

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Dictatorships are simply as sexy as graves in a graveyard.

34

Either way, Ukraine did not care about the right of the people of Donbas to determine their own future, massacring thousands of people, making millions of refugees. I have a feeling that these all serves them well.

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35

I suggest everyone not to aswer to the commentator above. You already know pretty much all possible further responses. Don’t allow this silly discource feed on you.

36

Wasn’t it Zelensky who proclaimed in Munich that Ukraine wants to acquire a dirty bomb in the future - causing applause from the Western delegates? If you want to destroy Russia with nuclear weapons, you should probably consider the consequences - that you will also be destroyed.

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37

@gbvr
FYI:
"The Pentagon has established a channel of direct communication with the Russian ministry of defense to avoid unintended conflict related to the war in Ukraine.

A US defense official said the “de-confliction line” was established March 1 “for the purpose of preventing miscalculation, military incidents, and escalation.” The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the communication line has not been announced."

38

Yeah, the very thought that Russians are not animals but human beings with some rights like the right to life is silly for you. You are Nazis after all, aren’t you, there is no doubt about it.

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39

Yes, deprive the other side of a voice. Strip them of their humanity. Allow only to be heard the one-sided monolithic perspective of Western propaganda.
That is how we have arrived at this crisis to begin with.
This isn’t simply a matter of failed diplomacy - it is the outright destruction of all diplomatic channels. And meanwhile we continue to aggressively roll NATO right up to Russia’s borders from every side.
Listening to the ‘News’ here in the USA is like listening to fairy tales meant for naive children.
Truth is, ‘The West’ has played recklessly with Ukraine in its effort to maintain world hegemony. It continues to do so. And the current Ukrainian leadership - if we can call them such - has been largely willing accomplices in this endeavor.

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40

While you’re (kind of) right I feel like you’re also virtue signalling.
The issue is that at the sharp end of geopolitics the concept of morals themselves is in flux. In “the west” for example it is acceptable to be gay in public. In certain other countries it is punishable by death.
Without a holy book to dictate right and wrong, each country does so itself and takes essentially arbitrary positions on what is “moral”.

With that in mind I don’t think it is possible to say that “the west” is qualititatively or quantitavely exactly morally equivalent to russia and/or china at this time.

Unless of course you’re just going to say that “we’re all atoms and nothing matters”.