Does everyone who has a mother tongue have a native language? I ask because based on Plouffe, and possibly Junair and Vera’s posts, there are people who possibly do not speak like natives in any language, however they presumably have mother tongues.
My general point (and I do have one) is that “native” is more perceptual than linguistic and it is my considered opinion, and you may actually agree with me on this, that we shouldn’t get too hung up on it.
I work in a language school. I have seen literally thousands of learners. THose who express concern about sounding native are usually distracted from actually learning to communicate. To me it is like someone who works out to have big arms and legs rather than be capable of more tasks that require strength.
Speaking like a native can’t be a main goal in your studying of foreign languages. I believe the main goal is to understand and to be understood.
Moreover, the native speakers speak differently: a German from the North and the German from the South speak so differently that they must sometimes ask each other what exactly he/she means. The same about the Americans from the North and the South states, from the north and the south of England, from the north and the south of France.
Of course, there are some limits, some bounds, but within these bounds you can speak differently without following only one model.
Vladimir Pozner likes to stress that he learnt Russian as adult. I don’t hear anything strange in his pronunciation. Another guy I heard of was Sergey Sossinsky, a grandson of Victor Chernov, the most powerful rival of Lenin. He lived in the end of his life (he died about 10 years ago) in a remote place in Vladimir Oblast, earning his living by writing articles for French, English, Russian newspapers. One Russian channel made an interview with him in the last year of his life, so I can testify that his Russian was perfect. He even said once that he knew Pozner before they both came to Russia but then “their paths split”. I can guess he didn’t like Pozner’s work in propaganda field.
I can’t see why anyone would try to sound like a native of the language they’re studying. If it comes with practice and studying, that’s great, but if it doesn’t come and you can undestand and be understood even when with foreign accent, that’s all it matters to me.
When I’ve spoken to Spanish learners, one that sounds “native” does not surprise me more than one that doesn’t, provided they both have about the same level of Spanish.
And besides what I have said, wouldn’t it be a much happier and colorful world if all languages could have different accents even when speaking the same language? I would hate to see languages get too flat.
The issue is not whether someone can learn to speak really well. It is whether someone would be mistaken for a native by a native speaker of that version of the language in question.
With respect to Vera’s comments earlier, I think there are different accents among native speakers of a given country.
Here in Australia, there are people who have Anglo-Australian heritage and have a given accent. There are, for example, people who have Greek heritage, who have a different accent, but may not even be able to speak Greek. They are still native speakers (and therefore ‘speak without an accent’), but their background influences their accent. If they were to go to Greece, they would be considered Australians. I also believe that anyone who spoke another language growing up (and can speak it fluently) will have a slightly varied accent to that of monolingual anglophones (at least this is what I have observed in Australia). To me, it doesn’t mean that they don’t sound like natives.
I agree with peterlaunonen, it doesn’t mean they don’t sound like natives. I know a few people from India who do not speak a word of Hindi, are entirely monolingual anglophones, and yet who have a very strong Hindi accent because it would probably be the accent they learned from their parents or people around them in general (who presumably do speak Hindi). Their English is of course as good as any “native” speaker’s because, despite what one might assume from first hearing their accent, it is their first and only language.
Native speakers speak their first language with the accent that they acquire from their surroundings. A second language learner can choose which accent he wishes to use as a model. This might be Indian accented English, or Scottish English, or Mediterranean French, or more standard varieties. This is up to the learner.
The question here is how many manage to sound so close to the model they are imitating as to be mistaken for one of them. Not many in my view, hardly any in fact. It does not matter. I am always in awe of a foreigner with an outstanding command of English regardless of the accent.
Ks wrote: “The ability for pronouncing foreign words is different for everyone.”
I agree, and this is why I think that it’s possible (for some foreigners) to speak like a native.
berta wrote: “Luca (poliglotta80 on youtube) speaks like a spanish native speaker!!”
This comment confirms my general thoughts, and also my impression of Luca’s skills. Some people may never meet foreigners speaking their language as a native, and some meet them all the time.
Not that it’s “important” to speak like a native, but it can be done. I’m not lying when I say that I’ve met people whose Swedish could fool me any day.
Who knows, maybe next major banner update will feature this slogan.
“Study a language with our method (it’s the best!), but don’t expect to be able to ‘speak like a native’ (we don’t think it’s possible).”
Charlie The person in your video sounds very native like, but is identifiable as not totally native. I do not think it is impossible to sound just like a native, to be mistaken for a native, it is just very very rare. I have met lots of non-native speakers in my career in business and among immigrants in Canada. Perhaps there is a hand full of people who sound native like or so close to native that you have to listen very carefully. Not impossible, just very rare.
This also may well be because the usual methods to learn a language don’t prepare you or don’t seem to be very keen on teaching you how to sound like a native (with the right intonation, rhythm and stuff).
The methods out there to train your pronunciation are a bit unfriendly, at least for my liking.
Maybe if we thought we could, then we would. Or at least we’d be close enough.
Miho’s English is outstanding. I would mistake her for British. People like her are rare. However, it is a lot easier for young people, students, to achieve this or close to it, if they are willing to hang out with the locals and socialize with them. She talks about being in a pub with her English friends. That is not, unfortunately, typical of foreign students, who tend to hang out with each other.
I think that people pick up on the intonation naturally if they are motivated to belong to that “other” group. It is the desire to leave the comfort of one’s own cultural group and join another group that is greatest factor influencing how quickly we achieve native like fluency and pronunciation. If we can eliminate the resistance to the new language, we will greatly speed up the learning process. I do not think that it is a matter of a speech therapist. Anyone who goes to accent reduction class has missed the point. Most of those people do not just enjoy hanging around with the native speakers.
