In Europe can refugees and guest workers actually afford these language classes? Our immigrants are pretty much on their own in that respect. Well, even illegal-immigrant children do have the right to attend k-12 schools, and they do learn English, but adults are pretty much on their own.
@Robert: āā¦I donāt think my English is any worse than that of some of my former fellow students who actually were lucky enough to spend a year or two studying at a university in a country where their target language is spokenā¦ā
Your level is, without any doubt, better than that of most of these individuals! 
@Robert: āā¦when I was a student, Austria was not yet a member of the EU and it was very hard to get a scholarship and my parents could have never afforded to send me abroad for such a long timeā¦ā
Youāre right - the Erasmus scheme is a wonderful opportunity. (It is the only good thing about the EU which I can think of, to be honest.)
But this makes it all the more incredible that there are some students each year who just completely throw away this opportunity. It is such a sad waste.
@ at djvlbass (ā¦)
In Europe can refugees and guest workers actually afford these language classes? (ā¦)
It all depends on their legal status. Refugees are sometimes offered language courses for free or the courses are paid for by NGOs, such as Caritas or Zebra, but I doubt that was the kind of course Colin attended. Sometimes our Labour Office (āArbeitsamtā) pays for the language courses if the person in question is an EU citizen or the spouse of a foreign national who has a permanent residence and working permit here in Austria and is looking for a job. There are other organisations that offer low-cost or free courses, most of them are run as NGOs.
If, as Colin said, the participants in that course were practically all spouses of another national who already had a job in Austria, it is very likely that they were allowed to come here as part of the so-called āFamiliennachzugā (family reunion regulations according to which immediate members of a family are granted a residence and/or working permit) or they were indeed nationals of another EU country and as such basically equipped with the same rights as Austrians.
No matter what their background was, it was definitely a very wise decision to try and learn the language of the country they reside in.
@ Jay: Thanks for your nice words.
(ā¦) Youāre right - the Erasmus scheme is a wonderful opportunity. (It is the only good thing about the EU which I can think of, to be honest.) (ā¦)
I think there is more good stuff to say about the EU but there undoubtedly are also a lot of problems.
(ā¦) But this makes it all the more incredible that there are some students each year who just completely throw away this opportunity. It is such a sad waste. (ā¦)
I totally agree with you.
@ Corin - I guess one important thing here is your own personality. Are you the kind of person who likes and is good at meeting new people? I myself could never go to a bar alone and expect to meet and chat with people and I do not like doing activities that involve meeting people, but I have known people who are great at this kind of thing.
I remember inviting some American guy who was travelling around Scotland to stay with me for a few days in North Berwick (my family has a flat there) when I was staying there for a week to get some work done. The day he arrived, I was hard at work and he decided to go out and wonder aimlessly around the town. An hour later, I got a call from him asking if I wanted to go with him and some guys to Edinburgh for some drinks (we ended up in some piss soaked hole on Grassmarket, but thatās a story for another day). Such a person would have no problem meeting people to chat to.
@Robert
Thatās really interesting. I guess Iām going to try to meet a nice Austrian girl, get married, then learn German =0
Iām definetly going to read up more on the NGO route. Iām thinking about doing a degree in education, focussing on ESL. I had already been considering that the non-profit sector might be the place in which to think of working, here in the US.
@Colin
Iām usually a pretty reserved guy, but (usally at bars) I for some reason, always get along with Scottish people. I think we two peoples, US and Scottish, have something that clicks? Iām not even one of those āmy great grandfatherās uncle was Scottishā types.
āI guess Iām going to try to meet a nice Austrian girl, get married, then learn Germanā
Thatās exactly my plan!
@ djvlbass (ā¦) had already been considering that the non-profit sector might be the place in which to think of working, here in the US. (ā¦)
Definitely a great line of work but be prepared to be completely underpaid and not always appreciated for what you do. The NGOs I mentioned above regularly come under heavy attack from right-wing organisations for what they do. You find that in any country you go to, I guess. Helping foreigners, refugees and the like, usually draws some opposition form nationalists etc.
Besides, as we say in German āUndank ist der Welten Lohnā (you can also say āUndank ist der Welt Lohnā). It means something like āno good deed goes unpunishedā or āthe world pays with ingratitudeā. Most people I know and who work in the non-profit sector are in it because they are idealists and I guess that is what you need to be to survive. But they all love their jobs and wouldnāt want to work anywhere else. So, go for it if you feel you are that kind of person.
@ Colin and @ djvlbass: You are not seriously looking for a nice Austrian girl to have an excuse to learn German, are you guys? 
It might actually be wiser to start with the learning part since most teachers are female here and some are really very nice too. But, what he heck, whatever gets you guys speaking
Colin: Donāt tell me you are here in Austria all on your own? I thought you had come with the whole package - wife, kids etc. So much for preconceptions
@Colin I know exactly the sort you mean, those who can just go out there and talk to other human beings 
Talking to complete strangers is maybe on the fringes of my comfort zone but I have certainly gotten more used to it having worked the tills for 7 months and now having to meet strangers in spain so I can do it if I have to, which Iām now starting to realize I may. since posintg my original post, on days where I have been speaking or chatting to other people in Spanish to a minimum, I have tried to counter it by doing a lot of work here on lingq or in other ways. I DO feel like I have already improved but like it has been said I really donāt want to waste this opportunity. I guess what I should do is just anything at all to try and meet new people who will only speak Spanish to me? football teams, other sports, gym, meet up groups, language exchangesā¦ right? and when I canāt do this just to maybe try and immerse my self in the language as much as possible, by readingā¦watching tvā¦listening and so on?? what do you guys think??? Iāve still got more than three months hereā¦but Obviously it may be good Iāve spotted this situation earlier rather than later.
@Corin
Iād imagine having an accent helps, a bit, in approaching strangers, no? Itās not just that youāre some weird local guy wandering up to a group of people - Youāre an exotic foreigner.
I have no experience in this regard, yet, but Iām hoping that having an accent will help me when I am wandering around Nancy in a couple months from now, not knowing a soul in the entire city. Iād be really interested to hear your experience on this, so far.
@Robert
Ha, yeah, its indeed kind of a worry in those aspects. I live in a pretty nationalistic part of the nation. We have seen an influx of African refugees over the last few years, in addition to Hispanic immigration, and its a really interesting dynamic. As far as money, I donāt (think I) care. Then again, Iām still in the overlly idealistic phase that I think everyone goes through in their early twenties.
ps. You stopped using āadā and started using ā@.ā Did we turn you into a plebian ;0 ?
@ Robert (if this is the real Robert!) - āColin: Donāt tell me you are here in Austria all on your own? I thought you had come with the whole package - wife, kids etc. So much for preconceptions ;-)ā
I have no idea why you thought that. I came here on my own. Anyway, I donāt want to give the impression that I want to meet a lovely Austrian woman so that I can learn German. In fact, itās the other way around. 
Nothing wrong with actively seeking Teutonic females, Colin.
Now in my younger daysā¦ (But noā¦this is a family showā¦! :-D)
@ Robert - "If, as Colin said, the participants in that course were practically all spouses of another national who already had a job in Austria, it is very likely that they were allowed to come here as part of the so-called āFamiliennachzugā (family reunion regulations according to which immediate members of a family are granted a residence and/or working permit) or they were indeed nationals of another EU country and as such basically equipped with the same rights as Austrians. "
A few of the participants of my course were from within the EU, two were from Africa, and the rest were Russian.
@ djvlbass (ā¦) ps. You stopped using āadā and started using ā@.ā Did we turn you into a plebian ;0 ? (ā¦)
When I write in German, I only use āadā. But I guess in English the @ sign is the only correct sign to use in this context. I felt kind of lonely being the only one using āadā here
@ Colin: (ā¦) I have no idea why you thought that. I came here on my own. (ā¦)
I think this has to do with your vid I saw on youtube. I somehow assumed this was a video you shot in Austria and there was a female voice in the background. Besides, the floor in the apartment looked like parquet flooring to me and I hardly ever saw that kind of flooring in an apartment in the US or in the UK. I obviously jumped from one false assumption to another. I hope youāll forgive me
Ah, the kittens. This video was from the day I stayed at my mothers house in London before going to China two years ago. She had just got these 3 week old kittens. Unfortunately the next time I was staying in London a few months later, the cute black one got flattened under the wheel of a car.
āThe cute black one got flattened under the wheel of a car.ā
Now I never want to see your video. Itād be sad now, knowing the fate of the cat.
@Corin
"I guess what I should do is just anything at all to try and meet new people who will only speak Spanish to me? football teams, other sports, gym, meet up groups, language exchangesā¦ right? and when I canāt do this just to maybe try and immerse my self in the language as much as possible, by readingā¦watching tvā¦listening and so on?? what do you guys think??? Iāve still got more than three months hereā¦but Obviously it may be good Iāve spotted this situation earlier rather than later. "
Do you take classes with English natives or Spaniards? If you have native speakers in your classes, maybe you could study with them? Iām sure youāve thought of this if you had the chance.
All my friends were from the church youth groupā¦so is that an option? Joining a team sounds goodā¦
Well, my class mates, other than the teacher, are all not from Spain would you believe?
I noticed something similar in my German class in Vienna. There were no native speakers! Peculiar.
I read somewhere that in those speed-dating events they hire two really attractive people to attend; one male, one female. They should do the same with language classes: hire two native speakers for each class. Preferably very attractive.
For the benefit of those following this thread, I spent two months in Salamanca and had the feeling that I was not making much progress, but to those in my local Spanish meetup group (upon my return), the difference in my capability was like a night and day comparison. How did I do this? I had two language exchange partners, I lived in an apartment with a seƱora who spoke not one word of English, and since I was twice the age of the other students, I was not invited to their gatherings. When I wasnāt working on assignments or talking with my language exchange partners, I wandered the streets and tried to make small talk with any shop owner.
To anyone who is planning on an immersion program, and I assume you are college-age, you will have to make a decision: meet and have fun with interesting people from all over the world close to your age who all speak English, the official language of all affluent enough to travel to learn another (a third in most cases!) language, OR, learn that other language. If youāre young, this can be more difficult than you suspect.
I am going back to Salamanca for an extended period, and I will look for even more language exchange partners and during a month with la seƱora, I will find a room with espaƱoles for the rest of my stay. I do not expect this to be easy, but I know my Spanish will improve substantially.
Good luck.