Polyglot Conference Video on PolyNots

Not so simple. I have never seen estimated levels of active vocabulary required for the CEFR levels. Not simple to estimate active vocabulary. You would have to either record people speaking or takewhat people write, and analyze it. The sample would have to be quite large. It could be done but I don’t see us doing it here at LIngQ.

The passive vocabulary levels cannot predict the active vocabulary levels, in my view. Passive vocabulary will become activated through lots of speaking and writing. There is no obvious correlation.

Paul Nation estimated that the ratio between word families and words in English was 1 to 1.6, I believe. One would have to look at his work to see how he defines word families.

So I prefer to stay with the passive vocabulary, or our known words count, because it is easy to measure. It is a valid indicator of one’s language potential. The rest is up to each learner.

I loved the presentation and was lucky to be present in Budapest. Lots of things to think about and many useful ideas. Anthony is a hilarious presenter!

The presentation is being transcribed and the subtitles will be translated to other languages. Hopefully it’ll appear here on lingq as a lesson if the license permits…

I found Anthony’s presentation highly entertaining, and so very inspiring. I didn’t need to have to agree with everything said in order to benefit from it. I didn’t go along with the ‘short term memory’ thing for example, but who cares? I would personally love to see more presentations done by Anthony.

Interestingly, the passive/active vocabulary discussions have made me realise that I’ve been unconsciously recording words as known for LingQ purposes only when in fact they were really my active vocabulary. [not up to date yet either]. I suspect several members are doing this ie. not marking words known until they think they have learned them – eg. in my case, being able to comprehend and use them correctly in tests and written work, and also orally. Maybe even handwrite them. However, I do agree with Steve that it’s not necessary to know words actively for LingQ vocabulary tally purposes.

I took a break from my University language studies to turn my passive vocabulary into active vocabulary before I advanced any further. Except that I originally didn’t couch it in those terms in my mind. All I know is that I was frustrated from acing exams, but couldn’t say much, even though I’m really B2 in Japanese say.

Now I find going back over the nuts & bolts, and using such courses as Michel Thomas and Pimsleur very good for acquiring active vocabulary. They won’t necessarily give me a large active vocabulary, but they certainly are giving me more confidence to speak the language and use what I already know. We have to find what works for ourselves.

Julz,

It is interesting that often those things that are directed at beginners such as easy graded readers, or grammar or Michel Thomas or Pimsleur, are actually most effectively studied after we have had enough exposure with the language

I think the reason for this is that when we are first confronted with these beginner programs, however much they try to gently introduce us to the language, the experience is overwhelming. Everything is new and strange. We don’t know what to focus on or what to grab onto. We think we will never learn this language.

When we go back to these beginner materials at a later stage, after we have had experience with the language, we now know what to look for. It’s as if we were able to take our life experience as a 50 or 60-year-old and go back and become a 20-year-old again. We would do a better job.

And so it is with language learning. As experienced learners, as people who have already been confronted with so many different aspects of the language, we now know what we want to focus on. We don’t have to worry about acquiring unknown words or wondering what things mean. We just zoom in on those aspects of structure or grammar which we know cause us trouble.

@Steve -Oh, you are so right. I joked with my husband the other day that I wanted to call you Obi Wan Kanobe (except you’re way better looking). Haha! I’m using Assimil for both Japanese and Chinese at the moment, and it’s incredible what I’m noticing. Plus I can read the Japanese script fluently anyhow. I can do the hell I like on LingQ as you said. I don’t need anyone to come along and start scrutinising stats to fit CEFR levels et cetera. I plan on sitting JLPT & HSK exams, but won’t get hung up on LingQ stat correlations either. Your ‘Linguist on Language’ posts are particularly interesting of late.

In my case, I have accumulated years of passive experience in Japanese, commencing in 1975 (yeh, during the Vietnam War, wow). Then I studied it on and off over the years. I was reading & writing Japanese before all my native Japanese Uni lecturers were even born, which feels strange. I’ve stopped feeling regret for time wasted, and now focus on all the wonderful language study I’ll be doing in the next 51 years! That will take me to age 102…

By the way, I am so looking forward to speaking to you on Skype in both Japanese and Chinese some day! Noooo, not yet! :slight_smile:

You may judge how out of touch I am with modern culture by the fact that I had to look up Obi Wan Kanobe on google to find out who he was.

I look forward to our conversations in Japanese and Chinese. Meanwhile I enjoy reading about the different paths that people take towards their language learning goals. I see LingQ as a community of people with common interests, and a constantly improving source of resources for language learning.

I had to google his name to find the correct spelling!

You guys must be talking about Ben Kanobe.

Steve & others…I couldn’t resist…check out Steve’s “new” profile pic! Haha!

@Julz611

Steve as a Jedi knight!?

Does that mean that Friedemann is Count Dooku? Or Darth Sidious perhaps?

(I can think of a pretty obvious candidate for Darth Maul too, but he’s going through a rough patch right now so I’ll say no more…)

Yes, I go through cycles. Exposure, grammar, exposure, grammar, make fool of self, exposure, grammar, etc.

Hey, Steve. I just wanted to add another perspective. I used to teach English as a second language in Taiwan for years. And for the final four years, I was running my own school and had complete control over the curriculum and teaching methodologies.

There were two pieces of my curriculum that were fairly innovative and unusual for the Taiwan buxiban scene. One was a aural phonics training system for beginning level students and the other was a strong emphasis on extensive reading, using the Oxford Bookworms series mentioned in the presentation, in fact. My primary inspiration for this decision was Krashen’s research as well as the “book flood” experiment Beniko Mason did in Japan.

The benefits I saw my students gain from the graded readers were dramatic. I realize it wasn’t a well controlled experiment like those of the linguists mentioned above, but I saw clear improvements pretty much across the board—not only in skills but in terms of affect towards and interest in English. High quality graded readers give students a window into the target culture, exposure at an easy comfortable level, reinforcement of previously learned material and at least for most adults, more interesting material than children’s books (which I also like learning from). Most importantly, when using graded readers, students are actually reading at a reasonable rate instead of picking through unfamiliar words and struggling to understand. In general, I saw students struggle with the first couple of level one readers (partially because of how early I gave it to them), but then read them pretty comfortably after that. After about 10 readers of a level, most students were not only ready but wanted to move up to a harder level.

And this brings us back to the question of what you can do with only 400 words. You can talk with a sympathetic native speaker, such as a teacher or conversation partner and you can read an Oxford bookworm such as The Coldest Place on Earth, Pocahontas, or The Monkey’s Paw! Get hooked on that and you won’t be stuck with only 400 words for long.

I’m interested in the idea of Lingq, and tried it at one point. I think the inclusion of high quality premium content such as extensive readers and children’s books would be a huge asset. I remember asking you on youtube a few months ago for good Spanish reading resources for a beginner. Now I have a good answer to my question—Blaine Ray Novels, the Read It! graded readers, the Lola Lago detective series and maybe the Penguin Parallel Texts. Get that kind of content, start working on integrations so that users know when they’re ready for a given level of text and Lingq will be much stronger for beginning students. I know this is a huge amount of work. Until very recently I was one of just two engineers working at Verbling and I have experienced on a deep level just how much work it takes to push new features.

Another, more philosophical problem is how to handle phrasal verbs and other multi-word semantic chunks. When does a learner actually “know” a word like go? I had to explicitly mention to my students as we were reading, that “go on” was 繼續, “go over” was 重溫 or maybe 受歡迎, while “go through with” was 實行, etc… These multi-word chunks are every bit as important as many medium frequency words and they make binary counting of words being known or not very difficult. Ideally, I think they should be treated as separate vocabulary items and included in any sort of collection of high-medium frequency words for learners who are trying to get to a basic level of competence in a language. Letting Lingq users see what items are remaining before they have covered the high or high+medium frequency words in a language would probably be a useful feature, too.

I intend these comments to be friendly and constructive to the discussion and am in no way complaining about what you’ve made so far. Thanks again for all the videos and content you’ve shared over the years!

Thanks for your comment. To me, interest in the subject matter is important to ensure that I stay with it. The only graded material that I enjoy is non-fiction, history and the like. If the content is literature I prefer the original. Thus I have only used graded material in Chinese, where simplified histories etc. were available, and I only used those at the very beginning, first few months or so. I couldn’t wait to get to authentic material. I am not interested in children’s stories, and don’t necessarily find them easier.

Learners can save phrases at LingQ but we have no way of assigning them a frequency coefficient.I think the concern about learning high frequency words or phrases is overdone. If we save phrases at LingQ and they pop up again and again as yellow saved LingQs, we will get the reinforcement we need.

As for speaking to people when I have only 400 hundred words, my experience tells me that the conversation will be very limited and I won’t understand much of what the other person says unless he/she really limits the subject matter. Just not something I like to do.

But then that is just me. Cheers.