I have had a conversation with Luca in Chinese. I am not talking about monologues.
@ Friedemann “Nobody says, ok, today I will upload a video where I really struggle.”
I have upload videos if me struggling in Czech and Korean. I can’t speak for others.
You make a lot of sweeping statements that are hard to substantiate.
I’m on Friedemann’s side, here.
Besides Steve and Prof. Arguelles I don’t remember seeing other YT polyglots having a conversation about history, politics, travel, etc …
When I look at Steve’s videos, I see a man whose passions are learning foreign languages, politics, history, sport, sociology, etc …
I definitely think that Steve is able to have conversations about all of these topics in all of his languages (except maybe Korean).
When I watch Luca’s videos, I see a man whose passion is learning foreign languages. Nothing else.
I’d like to see him diversify his topics, just to gauge his “real” level when he feels uncomfortable.
@ Steve :
What was your conversation with Luca about ? Do you think that Luca could talk about politics/history/sport/ etc … as well as he talks about language learning, in any of his languages (English included) ?
I think a key point here is that (effective) pronunciation practice can have benefits. imo, this is sometimes under rated on this site?
Recording yourself speaking (full) sentences and comparing this against a native recording is both; an excellent pronunciation tool, and, a very useful way to help you notice the language.
In particular, noticing intonation within a sentence (rather than focusing on pronunciation of individual words) is very beneficial.
This reminded me of a post on sinosplice, regarding Mandarin : “Dr. Liao recommends that instead of correcting every mispronounced tone in a sentence (and there might be many), instructors should focus on the stressed words. When the tone(s) in a stressed word is mispronounced, the sentence will frequently sound quite bad to native ears, but when the stressed word is pronounced correctly, the other tones will often fall in line.”
@ IT :
It’s obvious that, if Luca is training to be a translator, he is/will be able to converse about a wide range of topics.
To be honest, I’d like to see Luca and Steve talking about, say, the death penalty in China, in Chinese : it would be interesting both linguistically and culturally.
@ iaing :
Thanks for your article !
I totally agree with what Dr. Rongrong Liao said : focusing on the stressed words is the most important thing to do when you learn a tonal language.
I do it when I speak Thai, and native speakers “laud” me quite regularly for my good level (which is not that good, in my opinion).
In this article you can read :
“Tones are such bullshit. When Chinese people talk really fast, they don’t really use them. So I’m just going to ignore them and talk really fast like Chinese people, and I’ll be fine.”
This is my experience with Thai. I totally agree with this excerpt.
I think that focusing on the overall intonation or rhythm or music of the language is good advice in learning any language. At LingQ it is easy to do this while streaming the sound on the lesson page and reading at the same time. First phrases, then sentences, then paragraphs. Try to repeat these with an emphasis on overall rhythm rather than individual words. I don’t think it is necessary to start record yourself for comparison until you have had lots of practice.
Yes Benny’s Chinese and Arabic are certainly examples of videos of bumbling and Moses is not afraid to show himself in less than perfect form.
@ IT. I don’t think Luca is being nit-picked here at all. I don’t understand the reference.
Juju, I have no idea if Luca has all the vocabulary needed to discuss the death penalty, (nor if I have for that matter), but I think he would be able to discuss the subject, with a few vocabulary gaps, searching for words here and there. If you can speak comfortably as he does, you can speak. If you need new vocabulary you get it as needed.
I wonder if Friedemann is still getting those emails every time someone posts on this thread?
It’s possible…
He could be…
@Friedmann,
I’m wondering if you have ever had a one-on-one conversation with Luca? I have had many and as an American who has lived in both Europe and three distinct regions of the United States (West Coast, the South and East Coast) I’d bet most people would never guess that Luca is not native. I’ve only heard him say one word with a slight accent and that accent wasn’t even Italian. I corrected him and he took it in stride.
Further, as far as your “natural phrasing” comment goes - Luca can and has discussed a wide range of topics in multiple languages. I’m not certain why you would make these comments when you clearly have never spoken to him directly.
@Jay, frivolous posts to the forum just annoy anyone subscribed to the thread, and that probably does not include Friedemann. Please, a little self-control.
@IT. No one here has criticized Luca’s pronunciation. To say that someone does not sound like a native is not to criticize. Luca just does his thing, and to my knowledge has never claimed to sound like a native in English or any other language. He pronounces a wide variety of languages exceedingly well and teaches people how to improve their pronunciation but I don’t think he promises that they will be mistaken for a native.
I really don’t understand where you are coming from. I and a number of native speakers of North American English find that Luca’s pronunciation is excellent but not native. I presume you are a native speaker. Rather then talking about what you think others might think in certain situations, why not tell us if you would mistake him for a native. Tell us also why you think this is so important. To me it is not important at all, unless a person claims to speak like a native but in fact does not.
I can think of two or three people who learned English as adults and come pretty close to, or succeeded in fooling me. One is Tom ( I believe his name is) over at anti-moon, who is Polish, and whom I heard five or six years. Another is an immigrant from China who came to Canada, perhaps 10 years ago in his early twenties, Jerry Dai, and a third is our sometime participant at the LingQ forum from St. Petersburg, whose username now escapes me.
According to my secret sources he was a KGB operative, trained to speak with no accent. While on assignment in the US he fell in love with the check-out girl at a MacDonald’s drive through, gave up his career and went to work flipping burgers at MacD to be close to her. But she rejected his amorous intentions so he returned to Russia under an assumed persona as a jazz guitarist and linguist. Can’t remember his name though.
Ast, yes Ast. I hope we haven’t blown his cover.
Again, two questions that were not answered by you.
Does Luca sound like a native to you, to you, not to others, but to you?
Why do you equate sounding like a native with speaking a language well?
@Steve: “…a little self-control…”
Aw c’mon. Friedemann isn’t Long John Silver - his leg isn’t going to come off if I pull it.
(Anyway I rather like Friedemann: I enjoy the sheer German’ness of the guy!)
@IT: “…His pitch level is a little high for American English…”
I agree. I’ve always felt (and I’m honestly not trying to be mean here) that Luca’s accent sounds a little more like an American female, rather than a guy.
(I think he actually mentioned somewhere that he learned English from an American girl living in Rome, didn’t he? So maybe he picked up a really strong influence from her?)
BTW
As far as I am concerned, it’s definitely NOT the case that any of my posts on this thread are trying to knock Luca down, or anything like that. He is an impressive guy, and I have the very highest repect for his linguistic accomplishments. I really do.
@IT:
Friedemann speaks excellent English, Luca speaks excellent English. Neither sounds like a native but both come very close. Why compare? Who cares?
“Some polyglots” on Youtube have strong accents and try to fool people, you say. Could you be specific please, otherwise it sounds like a generalized smear about a lot of pretty genuine people that I have heard on Youtube, who willingly expose videos of themselves speaking foreign languages to the comments and often harsh criticisms of others.
As to whether they or others would take Luca for a native, this is really not something that you are in a position to say.
“…Neither sounds like a native…”
Accents aside, in written English Friedemann sometimes comes pretty close to native speaker level, IMO.
My answer is yes and it is up to the learners to decide from whom to learn. Most language teachers have not mastered the language that they teach. Some can be quite effective especially today when so much native speaker content is readily available on the web.
Moses has learned a remarkable number of languages to varying degrees of familiarity. If find his achievements impressive. I have no problem with him teaching the methods he uses to achieve these outstanding results. My understanding is that he is teaching methods, rather than the language itself. I am sure that many people would benefit.
Personally I would only learn a language from a native speaker, and only then after starting on my own with the resources that I can find on the web. I believe that learning depends on the learner. If a teacher, native or not, can stimulate or guide the learner, then that teacher can be effective. The teacher need not be the model of the language.
@IT:
“There have been other polyglots who have taken down their videos, so I don’t need to name them.”
I thought you were talking about Benny Lewis.
@Steve: “…Most language teachers have not mastered the language that they teach…”
Really? Most language teachers have no mastery of their subject? I have no soft spot for teachers, but that’s some sweeping claim.
Heaven only knows whether it’s true…?
(I doubt very much whether Steve could quantify it, however.)
I admit that “mastery” of a language is not easy to define. However, most language teachers are not native speakers and teach in the school system. Few would likely claim to master the language they teach.
Luca is fantastic of course, and on top of that he seems to be a genuinely nice and humble person even though I have never met him. His linguistic achievements are outstanding and a great inspiration for all learners out there. Period.
I was always more impressed by his other languages maybe because there are quite a number of people out there who have learned to speak excellent English, BTW, Jerry Dai’s pronounciation is native to my ears. For some reasons I feel that “US-English” should be easier to achieve for an English learner than any of the different accents spoken in the UK.
I always listened to Luca’s English already knowing who he was but I am still pretty sure that I would have identified him as a non-native even without knowing that. I just listened to this YT video. Luca Lampariello - YouTube
Answering the first question in his first sentence (40 seconds into the tape) he says that words are “the bricks that make out the wall”, which sounds a bit odd to me and then of course the way he pronounces “bricks”. And there are a number of other such examples in this very video that just do not sound authentic to me and it is the sum of all these little clues that finally give him away. Still his English is of course excellent.
Maybe I was a bit harsh regarding the topics of some YT polyglot videos but I really think they would be more interesting if they talked about something unrelated to language learning. And it does not have to be 18th century philosophy. Tell us what you did yesterday, what you did at the gym, the Pope’s election, how you tared your driveway the other day etc. Language is about words and phrases and to me a variety of topics is what really showcases one’s language abilities.