We would have to build a system to keep track of when each person bought or earned points and send out emails every time one of these packets of points was about to expire. In the old Linguist system we charged people every month, many of whom did nothing regardless of frequent emails from the system.
Three months is a long time to use points. If people are going to be away they can downgrade and then come back. This is an option that was also not available at The Linguist.
I would prefer to spend our programming time on a system to let members and tutors connect whenever they are available, as has been suggested. That is on our list, and would help ensure that people have something to spend their points on when they feel like it as is the case with Hape.
Steve said:
“If points did not expire there would be no points to redistribute to content providers. We do not charge for content and we do not pay for it.”
??? Why do the points given to providers have to come from the pool of expired points?? You can generate as many points as you like. Points do not represent a monetary claim. Content is of lasting value, so should their compensation be.
Furthermore, what will a paid member do when he realises that he always tends to lose a portion of his points? He will cancel his subscription of course. Again, I don’t see why the learner needs to be pushed like this, especially considering that Steve is always rejects to pressure the learner.
"??? Why do the points given to providers have to come from the pool of expired points?? You can generate as many points as you like. Points do not represent a monetary claim. Content is of lasting value, so should their compensation be. "
Points are put into circulation in the system when people buy them. The represent a value of 100 points to a dollar. They are used to buy services from tutors, who therefore earn them. They can even be cashed in if the minimum threshold is reached, in the case of diligent tutors. Any points that a content provided earns, come from points that someone bought. A content provider continues to earn points as long as the content is used.
We plan to negotiate with the EC to get carbon credits for the hours that people spend on hour site, which represent CO2 reduction compared to going to school or visiting foreign countries. I’ll keep you informed on how we do. We will put all carbon credits towards points for content providers.
“Furthermore, what will a paid member do when he realises that he always tends to lose a portion of his points? He will cancel his subscription of course.”
Members don’t always lose a portion of their points, only a few do, and most manage to avoid losing them the next time. Few cancel their subscriptions.
"Again, I don’t see why the learner needs to be pushed like this, especially considering that Steve is always rejects to pressure the learner. "
You may not see the reason why, but that is what we have decided to do.
“We plan to negotiate with the EC to get carbon credits for the hours that people spend on hour site, which represent CO2 reduction compared to going to school or visiting foreign countries. I’ll keep you informed on how we do. We will put all carbon credits towards points for content providers.”
Hang on, how far does this ‘if it were a class or a gym’ analogy have the stretch?
Many web sites send a monthly ‘points’ statement, and notification of how many points were added, used and are due to expire. This isn’t, after all, a gym or a class. It’s a web site. And a very good one at that.
Having an expiry date and giving expired points to contributors is fair enough and a good idea. But to have an active policy of not telling people when their points will expire feels slightly underhanded.
Could this information not be made available on the ‘points’ page? In that way people would have to actively check for the information, but at least it is there, somewhere. Just to add a degree of transparency.
Points are purchased or earned. People can follow their status in their Accounts section.
If a person buys 3000 points they can immediately sign up for enough discussions to eat up all 3000 points, or leave a few for the next month or plan to sign up for two discussion a month or whatever. They have 3 months in which to use these points.
If points are earned, again it is just prudent to check one’s status from time to time and make sure that all points are regularly allocated.
Our focus now is on the issues mentioned in another thread,
And other requests on the getsatisfaction list.
We are not going to be sidetracked by this issue. The system has been working fine for years and will continue as is, until we have time to allocate resources to dealing with it.
People sure hate losing their points but if you consider the alternative you’ll see that this gives the most freedom. Right now you get to “choose” if you want your points to go to the contributers or if you want to use them for writing/speaking. The alternative is that points costs the same but you get fewer and everyone pays the contributers the same amount per point they acquire. Personally I don’t care, I just want the contributers of all this good content to be compensated and the current system seems fine (changing would take development time from more important projects).
@roan - You can track your points yourself on the Points page. All the system does is look 90 days back and make sure you have used any points you received that day. If you look at the days you received points you can do this calculation yourself.
I hadn’t realized that points can be cashed in for real money but still, if Lingq receives something that doesn’t expire (the content) the compensation to the provider (the non usage based points) shouldn’t expire either. The rule that points to the providers need to come from purchased points is completely arbitrary. Lingq can print as many points as it likes, and if the cashing in is the issue, raise the threshold or make them non convertible.
My content became Lingq podcasts some time in 2009 I believe and has generated points ever since. The points I receive based on usage are then only for usage by paying members, right? What is the language breakdown among the paying members? I would guess that English is the most popular language but I might be wrong.
"if Lingq receives something that doesn’t expire (the content) the compensation to the provider (the non usage based points) shouldn’t expire either. "
First, there is no compensation, it is a bonus… if there are no leftover points, no provider gets anything… Second your idea of fairness also is arbitrary. There is nothing inherently more “fair” about it. Good content will generate bonus points indefinitely, you could easily ask why someone gets “paid” more than once for their content.
It is useful to think of points as tutor time, not money EG 1000 points = 30 minutes of tutor time within the next 90 days… no different than renting a car… my car rental money doesn’t expire either.
“The rule that points to the providers need to come from purchased points is completely arbitrary. Lingq can print as many points as it likes,…”
If LingQ gives you 1000 points from nothing, and you book a 30 minute conversation with a Chinese tutor, where does the money come from to pay the tutor?
I didn’t realize that tutors are paid in real money, are they? I do think of points in terms of time, I have no interest to cash them in. But why should tutor time be valued more than producer time? Bonus, compensation, whatever you want to call it. I give you something of value, you give me something in return, that’s what it is.
Steve, Mark,
another thing is this: I made these podcasts over a longer period of time back in 2009, one at a time. When I submitted them I wasn’t “bonused” at all and wasn’t even aware of the bonus point scheme. It was only after Vera told me what she receives for podcasts that I contacted you in that matter. Had I received the points at the time of the submission of each of these podcasts, I would have had a more even point income stream over a longer time which would have been easier to use up in time. However in my case I received all the 9000 points in September last year, which are equivalent to 18 conversations which I had no time to arrange for then.
Everything we do at LingQ is arbitrary. We make the rules. When you start a site you can make the rules.
I have looked into your content. It turns out it was part of the GermanLingQ podcast. That means that LingQ owns them and you were paid for them, not based on usage, but outright, up front, as is the case with all of the LingQ podcast series. We consider these promotion and therefore pay for them directly, which is not the case with normal content in the library.
These were uploaded in March 2009. This is the first time we hear from you on this.
9000 points is 18 15 minute discussions over 3 months (6 a month), or nine 30 minute one on one discussions, (3 per month) which over 3 months is not that difficult to arrange.
You could also have elected to receive cash at the time. We offer podcast producers the choice of points or cash. I have no recollection of our discussion at that time.
Here’s a tip: if you’re looking to make a fast pile of dollars, don’t waste time making LingQ podcasts!
Benuzte lieber dein Fachwissen im Bereich Chemie, um sogenannte “legal high party drugs” zu erstellen! Vielleicht könnten wir zwei sogar zusammenarbeiten? Du machst die Pillen drüben in China, und ich besorg dir eine Kundschaft in Europe und Nordamerika?
Ich meine…Drogen-Logistik…Pillen verticken auf der Straße…ist doch genau mein Ding!
50:50 beim Gewinn, ja? Was sagst du?
(Seriously buddy, if MONEY is the issue here, forget LingQ!)
“But why should tutor time be valued more than producer time?”
Objectively LingQ has no way of measuring how long it takes to produce content.
You are free to value your time as you like. So am I. On that note, bye
Ok, we want to encourage members to use up their points before they expire. At the same time, we want to reward the tutors and content providers for thir contributions using the expired points.
Say if you are successful in encouraging all the members and there are no expired points, then no one will get compensated. Isn’t this an obvious flaw in the system?
