I used to be annoyed at myself, and others (especially native English speakers), for going to countries and just using English and not trying to use the language of the country. Having lived in Vienna for over a year now, I now don’t think it is a big deal. I know people from all around the world who have lived here for years and not learned more than a few words of German. I know German native speakers who have lived in the French speaking world and not learned more than a few words of French. I know French who have lived in the German speaking world who have not learned more than a few words of German. It is normal. From what I can tell, the differences in the amounts of effort different people put into language learning is mostly a result of differences in their situations, and has very little to do with their attitudes, how open-minded they are, or how polite they are.
Unless you want to learn French for its own sake, I don’t think it is worth learning more than a few words for a short trip to Paris. If you are going to Paris for a few weeks, can’t be bothered learning any French, and are happy getting by using only English, then do that. If you want to learn more and try harder, then great. The advice I give British people I know who come to the German speaking world for short trips and try to order food or buy stuff in shops using incomprehensible German phrases that they tried to learn out of a phrase book and are very uncomfortable speaking is simply to order in English and not worry about it.
I just don’t agree. Most languages in Europe share at least enough sounds with English that a poorly pronounced phrase will be at least comprehensible.
It is really easy to get to a level where you can be capable tourist; meaning saying ¨Please¨ and ¨thank you¨¨I’ll take a … ¨
I am convinced I could get by in any city in Europe for a day with 10 well selected phrases.
I really don’t think local workers should be required to speak English inorder to get a low-paying job stuffing baguettes with plasticized brie for tourists.
To me English sounds naturally but I can’t express my thoughts in English correctly and I don’t know why (I think lack of reading). The biggest challenge in English for me is vocabulary I have been memorizing English words for 3 years (Now I want to finish several books and I am going to star working with LingQ regularly). I can’t t read in English correctly sometimes. For example: word “you” first letter is “y” and I have no idea why people pronounce word “you” as “u” first letter is “y” and this letter sounds absolutely differently anyway I’m so happy to be in this forum to type in English what I’m typing right now English is amazing language and there’s no doubt that English is the best language in the world. Peace!
That sounds just like a chain of cafés I heard to exist in Japan. I haven’t seen it, but it sure sounds like a good place to bring a girlfriend for a date. I’ll keep it in mind if I ever bring a girl to France!
Just make sure it is not called ¨Le Café des Chattes." If so, then this is NOT the place to bring a girl.
It has not been my experience that people are able to quickly learn a few phrases of a language that they have no experience with from a phrasebook and then make use of them in the country where the language is spoken. I certainly could not learn 10 phrases in a completely new language without a huge effort. I have tried it myself a few times in French and German and it never worked. I have never seen anybody do it successfully. Mostly what I have seen is people spluttering nonsense while ordering stuff in a restaurant, for example, and getting what they wanted since they pointed at the menu at the same time, and then understanding what the waiter or waitress was saying because 95% of the time you know what they are going to say before they say it. I was intensively learning German in Austria for months before I was able to use it for anything useful. Maybe this is all different for experienced language learners, but for most people from the English speaking world, I don’t think it is.
@Colin: Sorry, I have to disagree. Learning a few phrases (10, for example) in a language shouldn’t be that tough. If you just practice them for about an hour, you can upload a youtube video in 10 languages and then have people marvel at your polyglot skills. Understanding them when they are spoken, of course, will be much harder.
You don’t even have to really know what each word means if you commit a few phrases to memory. If you know what the general message conveys, then you are fine if you just want survival level skills in a language.
@Colin:
“…in Austria for months before I was able to use [German] for anything useful. Maybe this is all different for experienced language learners, but for most people from the English speaking world, I don’t think it is…”
This was very much my experience too, when I was living in Southern Germany.
When I visit countries where I don’t speak that language, I usually buy a phrasebook. I have rarely been able to use any of the phrases in the phrasebook.
Some languages may be easier to get started in than others. In my experience, however, the most difficult and time-consuming part of the process is moving from basic communication to excellence. I have compared it to an upside down hockey stick. We make rather rapid progress in our initial climb. Thereafter it’s a long long road.
@lingqqqenglish, my recommendation is that you do a lot of listening and reading at LingQ. Review your words and phrases with flashcards and especially with the dictation drill in the vocab section, to practice your spelling. Personally, I would not bother with the I PA nor read conventional dictionaries.
I have never found the IPA useful. It won’t help you spell. And if you can’t hear the pronunciation of the word, the IPA won’t help you. Rather I would focus on training your brain to match the spelling of English to the way it is pronounced. Try not to let your native language spelling influence how you pronounce English. Rely on developing the ability to imitate. But to each his or her own. You have to find your own way.
@Steve:
“…some languages may be easier to get started in than others. In my experience, however, the most difficult and time-consuming part of the process is moving from basic communication to excellence. I have compared it to an upside down hockey stick. We make rather rapid progress in our initial climb. Thereafter it’s a long long road…”
I agree.
Just out of interest, Steve, how many languages would you rate yourself as excellent in? (I’m guessing you’d say French, Mandarin, Japanese, Swedish, and maybe Spanish?)
Jay, only French. French is the only language where I feel that I could not improve a lot. In all the others, if I had time to devote to concentrated listening and reading and LingQing, I could improve my vocabulary and ability to express myself, considerably. Maybe one day. I just have to stop adding new languages.
Hi, Landho
I think that English is not that hard but just in pronunciation some words were if you have a accent from your native language, yes is a little hard for people to understand what you are trying to say in a conversation but with some mouth tactics and exercise you can soon get those words out with no problems. also some English born speaker have problems in explaining what they have to say so don’t feel bad, at list you trying to learn new language which is excellent keep on the good job!!!
So I found out today that I will be going to Biarritz (in France apparently) for 9 days at the end of August. I will be at a conference and speaking English 99% of the time, but would like to do the nice touristy thing and learn an effective amount of French before I go. I am not willing to spend much time on it, but maybe a ballpark figure of 30 minutes a day would be possible. Does anybody have any suggestions for what I can do and how much do people think I can realistically learn in this time? I don’t think I can learn much at all, but having enough knowledge that I won’t embarrass myself if I do try to say something would be my aim.
Of course that was going to be my first thing. I wonder if it would also be useful to sign up for a few lessons with teachers at wome point. It is just a bit of fun, and more for my interests than for any practical benefit. I don’t expect to get anywhere in a month.
That would depend on your present level in French. It is always stimulating to do so. I started talking to my Romanian tutors after one month self study here at LingQ. Bon courage!