I'm honestly a bit scared

Open Forum
21

“If I am not mistaken, the Google Translate program is based on statistical analysis of languages. It neither understands simple grammar nor nuanced expressions. It has simply accumulated an innumerable number of words and phrases.”

“誤解されていない場合、Google翻訳プログラムは言語の統計分析に基づいています。 シンプルな文法や微妙な表現は理解もしていません。 それは単に無数の言葉と句を蓄積しています。”(Translated from English to Japanse by Google Translate)

“If not misunderstood, the Google translation program is based on statistical analysis of the language. I do not understand simple grammar or subtle expressions. It simply accumulates countless words and phrases.” (Translated from Japanese to English by Google Translate)

Google Translate is not smart enough to speak simple Japanese. Of course, I have to admit that it is possible that what I wrote in English was not correct.

“Wenn ich mich nicht irre, basiert das Google Translate-Programm auf einer statistischen Analyse von Sprachen. Sie verstehen weder einfache Grammatiken noch nuancierte Ausdrücke. Es hat einfach eine unzählige Anzahl von Wörtern und Phrasen akkumuliert.”

I don’t know if this translation makes sense. I imagine that Google Translate is more reliable when you use it for English-to-German translation.

22

I’m right with you. I’m also not immediately expecting the day when google translate can produce poems and songs that rhyme, scan, fit the music, and obey all the rules of professional translation …

23

I would add that you should also study the culture. There are occasions when even a human translator who isn’t particularly familiar with the culture or can’t ‘read’ a particular situation will get things spectacularly wrong.

24

You will not need to learn new languages for every day practical things any longer like reading basic menus, factual articles, simple conversations, lectures etc. If you want to read original literature, however, you will need to learn the original language as much of it cannot be translated. In other words, material that is directly translatable today by professional translators will be taken over by programs like google translate, but things that will likely not are things such as reading original literature and perhaps participating in intense discussions.

If I wanted to work in a multi-lingual environment in the future, I would focus more on attaining complementary skills that will put you in such environments instead of throwing all your money on learning languages. Just my 2cens

25

I also had this fear that in 10 years, my profession as a translator would be in the gutter. However, after researching, I don’t think this will be the case (in 30 years, perhaps), but some major technology would have to come around to replace a human when translating (mainly interpreting). Machine translators have yet to inflect emotion, and more times than not, Google Translate spits out terrible translations in both Spanish and French when I’ve used it. (It doesn’t take into account Accent/Region, thus leaving you with terrible translations that could be taken wrongly in different places).

If you want to use languages when you grow up, and want to use them bad enough, you will find a way. Languages won’t be extinct in 10 years, and there will still be jobs that you can do with them.

Learning a language changes your life, no reason to stop learning just because of this hypothetical scenario. Even if this is something, you can always do a second passsion while living in a country that speaks your langauge.

26

Thank you, I never thought about that. I bet the programers work with people like this. Plus, programming language are like real langauges (or i’ve heard)

27

Good point

28

And all the translating companies will go 2 China, and Donald Trump will tax them! That will give me a job oppurtunity! Yes!

29

Plus, as a translator you could use Google translate 2 help u with your job. In a very serious scenario, u don’t want a machine 2 screw it all up.

30

oops!!

31

to* you*

32

”今日でも自動翻訳技術はある程度の翻訳をこなすし、siriのようなデジタルアシスタントはある程度の受け答えが可能。しかしこうしたサービスの裏側にあるAIは、ユーザーの発する言葉の意味を理解しているわけではない。

九官鳥に「おはよう」と語りかけると「おはよう」と返してくれるので対話が成立しているように見えるが、九官鳥は「おはよう」の意味を理解しているわけではない。同様にsiriに「今日の天気予報は」と聞くと、ネットを検索して今日の天気予報を探してきてくれるが、「天気」や「予報」「晴れ」「雨」などの意味を理解しているわけではない。

自然言語処理技術が完成するまで30年以上かかるか、もしくは完成することはない、と主張する人たちは、「完成」の定義を「AIが人間並みに言葉の意味を理解すること」としているのだと思う。

一方で早ければあと５年で自然言語処理の課題が解決すると主張するRussell教授の「完成」の定義は、「意味を理解していなくても、やり取りのパターンを大量を覚える」というようなものなのかもしれない。”

The following is the translation by Google Translate:
”Even today, automatic translation technology does some translation and digital assistant like siri can accept and answer to some extent. However, the AI ​​behind these services does not understand the meaning of the user’s words. [I can understand these sentences.]

Although it seems that the dialogue is established as it tells the magpie bird to say “Good morning” as “Good morning”, the Koiki bird does not understand the meaning of “Good morning”. Likewise, when asking siri “Weather forecast for today”, I will search the net to find the weather forecast for today, but understand the meaning of “weather”, “forecast”, “sunny” “rain” I am not. [I imagine that Googole Translate is confused although it does not conscious of it. ]

People who claim that it will take more than 30 years to complete natural language processing technology or will not be completed considers the definition of “completion” as “AI understands the meaning of the words in a human way” I think that. [Not bad, I think.]

Meanwhile, the definition of Professor Russell’s “completion” that asserts that the problem of natural language processing will be solved as soon as 5 years is something like “Remember a large amount of interaction patterns without understanding the meaning” It may be. [Not bad, I think.]"

33

Here are the opening words of “Tonio Kröger” by Thomas Mann:

"…Die Wintersonne stand nur als armer Schein, milchig und matt hinter Wolkenschichten über der engen Stadt. Naß und zugig war’s in den giebeligen Gassen, und manchmal fiel eine Art von weichem Hagel, nicht Eis, nicht Schnee.

Die Schule war aus. Über den gepflasterten Hof und heraus aus der Gatterpforte strömten die Scharen der Befreiten, teilten sich und enteilten nach rechts und links. Große Schüler hielten mit Würde ihr Bücherpäckchen hoch gegen die linke Schulter gedrückt, indem sie mit dem rechten Arm wider den Wind dem Mittagessen entgegen ruderten; kleines Volk setzte sich lustig in Trab, daß der Eisbrei umherspritzte und die Siebensachen der Wissenschaft in den Seehundsränzeln klapperten. Aber hie und da riß alles mit frommen Augen die Mützen herunter vor dem Wotanshut und dem Jupiterbart eines gemessen hinschreitenden Oberlehrers…"

Google-translate’s version of this:

"…The Wintersonne stood only as a poor glow, milky and dull, behind the clouds above the narrow city. It was wet and draughty in the gables, and sometimes a kind of soft hail, not ice, not snow.

The school was over. Over the cobblestone courtyard and out of the gate gate, the throngs of the freedmen streamed, dividing to the right and left. Large pupils, with dignity, held up their little books against the left shoulder by rowing their lunch with the right arm against the wind; Small people sat merrily in trot, that the ice-cream marched around, and the sieves of science rattled in the seals of the sea. But now and then, with pious eyes, the hats were torn down in front of the Wotanshut and the Jupiter’s beard of a headmaster who was measured…"

It has transformed the start of a great piece of European literature into garbage!

34

BTW My effort to translate the above German passage - for whatever it’s worth - would be this:

"…There was only a weak glow from the Winter sun that shone milky and dull behind banks of cloud over the little town. It was damp and windy in the gabled alleyways, and now and then there fell a feeble kind of hailstones, that were neither ice nor snow.

School was over for the day. Hordes of pupils were set free to stream over the cobbled courtyard and out of the main gate, peeling away to the left and to the right. Elder pupils clasped their little bundles of books high against the left shoulder in a dignified way, steering home through the wind for lunch, while the younger ones scuttled along happily, splashing through the icy slush with their tools of knowledge stuffed into oilskin satchels. But they all doffed their caps and respectfully lowered their eyes before the awesome hatted and bearded figure of the headmaster, who strode along with measured pace…"

35

I also thought of playing this game … very good! At the risk of cluttering the airwaves, here’s to my point about rhyming, scanning and obeying the rules of translation. This is the song Осенний Хоровод (Autumn Roundelay) by Skolot:

Original:

Осенний хоровод

Я брел лесной тропой,
Укрытою листвой,
Прохладен воздух был,
Но тело не страдало.
Но маялась душа,
Усталая душа,
В темницу уж давно
Она попала.

Покой да тишина
Вокруг царили,
И мысли лишь о ней
Мне больно в сердце били,
Зайду на холм
И крикну одиноко,
Ну где же ты?
Аль близко, аль далеко?

Мой верный конь
Тихонько рядом шел,
Деля со мной всегда
И радости, и горе.
Дождь моросил,
А легкий ветерок,
Кружил мою печаль
В осеннем хороводе.

Тоскливая пора
Вокруг царила
А осень не спеша
Листвою все покрыла
И не найти следов
Ни малого намека
О как найти тебя?!
Вдруг жизни мало срока?!
Ну где же ты?!
Аль близко, аль далеко?!

Manual translation:

An Autumn Roundelay

I walked a woodland path
All carpeted with leaves,
The air was growing cool,
But I unfeeling;
On and on my soul,
On went my weary soul,
Imprisoned long ago
In darkness, kneeling

Peaceful quietness
Ruled the air around me
But thoughts of her alone
Broke down my heart, and found me
I make for the hill,
Alone and in dismay
Where are you now?
Close by, or far away?

My faithful mare
In silence at my side,
Sharing with me ever
My happiness and grief
So cold the rain,
A laughing, playful breeze
Spun round my load of sadness—
An autumn roundelay

A dreary time of waste,
Her coronet she weaves,
Yes, autumn makes no haste,
But chokes the world with leaves
Of you I found no trace,
No footprint on the way
Oh, how will I find you?
I’ll search til my last day …
Where are you now?
Close by, or far away?

Google Translate:

Autumn dance

I walked the forest trail,
Shelter foliage,
The coolness of the air was,
But the body does not suffer.
But mayalas soul
The weary soul
In prison too long ago
She got.

Peace yes silence
Around reigned,
And just the thought of it
It hurts me to the heart beat,
I go to the hill
And I shout lonely
Well, where are you?
Al close al far?

My trusty steed
Quietly next to go,
Dividing with me always
And joy and sorrow.
Drizzling rain,
A light breeze,
I circled my sorrow
In the autumn dance.

sadness is time
Around reigned
A fall slowly
Foliage covered all
And do not find traces
No small hint
About how to find you ?!
Suddenly life little life ?!
Well, where are you?!
Al close al far ?!

36

“何でも好きなことを話し合うことができます。 制約はただひとつ、日本語で書かなければならないということです。日本語に関する質問は講師ではなく、他のメンバーが答えてくれることでしょう。”

Google Translate translated the above sentence as follows:
“You can discuss whatever you like. The only constraint is that you have to write in Japanese. Questions about Japanese are not lecturers, other members will answer.”

I wonder why Google Translate cannot understand the above simple Japanese. My translation is as follows:
“Instead of lecturers [tutors] , other members will respond to your questions about Japanese.”

37

Now your challenge is to find a couple of perfect translations using Google translate.

I suggest you try European languages and preferably to English.

They are there to be found :slight_smile:

38

It’s extremely hard to see how a computer could ever have any kind of elegant or aesthetically fine way with words. Even if it can translate some plain and simple sentences more or less accurately, it will always tend towards a fairly clunky and wooden kind of translation, IMO.

And when it comes to more colourful and artistic turns of phrase, we get offerings like this:

“Large pupils, with dignity, held up their little books against the left shoulder by rowing their lunch with the right arm against the wind; Small people sat merrily in trot, that the ice-cream marched around, and the sieves of science rattled in the seals of the sea. But now and then, with pious eyes, the hats were torn down in front of the Wotanshut and the Jupiter’s beard of a headmaster who was measured.”

If I were an editor commissioning literary translations, I reckon I’d be sticking very firmly to human wordsmiths! :-0

39

Well obviously!

Literary translations are much harder and poetry, for example, is extremely hard to translate. Bilinguals or trilinguals often have a preferred language for poetry and find it hard to write poetry in another language that they master. When it comes to translation it becomes almost impossible to reflect the original and requires creative thinking.

40

It is a very interesting point! I think the thing with language is that it is not always a literal thing. Google translate can give a very good idea of what some basic text means in another languages. However, it can’t understand the nuances in the way we convey meaning - that requires abstract thinking. When I say it is raining cats and dogs in English I mean it is pouring down with rain I do not mean cats and dogs are literally falling out of the sky! It is that sort of the thing and also the way we say things that requires deeper creativity and understanding than a machine can provide. So I think we will always need linguists! :slight_smile: