@Berta:
Friedemann is not allowed to watch YouTube, so he is not able to view the documentary…
There are lots of places where you can download the documentary, it’s called “manufacturing consent” from Noam Chomsky
China is definitely worse than the the US and EU now, but they’re heading in the right direction, however slowly, I’m afraid that we are not…
that’s exactly my point blindside 
@ “China is definitely worse than the the US and EU now, but they’re heading in the right direction, however slowly, I’m afraid that we are not…”
May be we clearly feel that China is moving in the right direction, because that direction is compared to the achievements of the US and EU ? Both in terms of democracy (hopefylly) and the per capita GDP. The direction in which, say, US is moving may be perceived as more vague, just because we do not project it to the known *right" leader.
I know that US and EU is in economic recession, while China is not. This is perhaps the main contribution to the feeling that Chine is moving *right" . Beyond this, however, who can say what direction is “right” for say, US. Could you, Chris? I would be intersted to discuss.
(Note: I ve not seen Berta’s documentary yet, so I am unaware of your point Berta
@Berta:
I hope we learned the lesson here: Hape is right, a normal internet user in China cannot watch the Youtube clip you posted. With my VPN which I pay for I might, depending on the daytime and the current mood of the censors. However I won’t rule out that China will also shut down VPNs completely once they become too popular.
I am sure there is a lot we can complain about in the western media environment but the control of information and access to it is just on a completely different scale than in a country like China.
We often forget that China only ranks 100 in terms of per capita GDP, behind countries like Azerbaidzhan and Peru. So it desperately needs to grow. Unfortunately it is not clear how much more of Chinese growth can be fueled by the limited resources the planet can provide. When growth stalls here in China we will all find out how the disillusioned masses vent their frustration.
I might add that growth has already started to slow here and the Chinese leadership now predicts 7% annually for the next five year period.
While I hadn’t thought of Germany being in the same league as China, the highest court in one of the Länder, Nordrhein-Westfalen, today ruled that recipients of state benefit (Hartz IV) are no longer allowed to spend their money on online gambling in betting shops! Is that what they call a Nanny State?
so far it is only a single decision of a court in Cologne “to protect those recipients from gambling addiction”, there are pros and cons to this judgement which deemed to be hardly realizable in practice.
That’s the problem with ‘state benefits’ whether it’s money, healthcare, or education… Why should I give anyone my hard earned money if they’re going to gamble, smoke, drink and teach children in ways that are wrong to me. I haven’t a choice…
The “Why should I give anyone my hard earned money” mentality is very popular in the US and particular with the Republicans. Still, the US has little going for it at the moment. No serious economist thinks that the US debt crisis can ever be tackled without some tax increases. What is so bad about an European style health care system? The US pays more than most other countries for healthcare and gets much less for the money it pays. Look where the US ranks in terms of longevity and child mortality.
Does anyone think the US can ever solve its energy problem without massive investments in its ailing infrastructure, especially the rail system?
Lower taxes for the rich gives more investment and more jobs? I don’t belive that. The rich have profited more than anyone in the last 10 to 15 years in the US. But who says their wealth is invested productively? It seems to me that most of it is saved and invested in financial instruments.
Great Friedemann! You might have put in the mouse of blindside more than he has said. Though we have had such discussions before, for example when we discussed the book of Paul Krugman “The Liberal Manifesto”, it remains an interesting topic.
If this thread eventually reaches 5-6 pages, the readers of the last ones will have as vague idea about what you hated you hated, as who was a liberal in the tora’s therad “Is He a Lberal” :-).
I hope tora3 and Bortrun are not hurt. Bortrun and tora, how are you?
“Does anyone think the US can ever solve its energy problem without massive investments in its ailing infrastructure, especially the rail system?”
I believe if you search hard you will find such crazy people, who believes the US will eventually meet the challenges no worse than other countries. The current administration does fight to improve the health care system. And why do you stipulate this specific condition "without massive investments in its ailing infrastructure, especially the rail system?’ First of all, WITH investment, and second of all, US has certain things in its infrastructure which still position it ahead of the others. For example high- tech and successful entrepreneurs.
And, of course, still the highest per capita GDP in the world.
Ilya,
I suggest you read up on per capita GDP, the US ranks about tenth in the world. I agree that the US has silicon valley and many innovative companies but our economies ultimately run on energy and without a more efficient infrastructure e.g. rail system it would be difficult to reduce the US’ dependence on foreign oil.
Friedemann, a few questions.
Have you ever been to the US?
Which country is more dependent on Mid East Oil, the US or Germany?
Why are you so concerned about solving problems in other countries, the US, China, and not the only country where you actually have a chance to influence things, Germany, where I presume you vote?
-
I have actually lived in the US working for our company.
-
Germany has no own oil resources so our import rate is almost 100% other than the US who imports about half. However energy efficiency is much higher in Germany so in that sense we are less vulnerable to price shocks. We also put a lot of emphasis on renewable energy.
-
China and the US have such a weight in the world that without them changing their ways, there is little hope that things will change globally. Yes, I only have voting rights in Germany and execise them regularly without having any illusions about the weight of my vote. You are right, I am very passionate about certain things I see, in my country or abroad, maybe I shouldn’t be but that is the way I am.
Steve
I should add that of course all economies in Western Europe should and need to do much more in terms of energy efficiency precisely because they are not blessed with abundant natural resources and in that sense are very dependent on imports
In fact Friedemann I agree with you re energy conservation, the need for it and the fact that Europe and Japan are far ahead of North America. I feel the issue is depletion of non-renewable resources and strategic interests, not the global warming issue, where I am far less convinced that there is much humans can do, nor that human activity is the main cause of climate variation. The reason I am not convinced is because of the ideological blindness of the anti-global warming activists.
I agree that the US medical system is very expensive, not efficient, and I would not be happy that so many people are not covered, although these are usually the middle class, since the truly needy are looked after in many or most cases.
On the other hand in Canada we have to wait 6 months, often for inferior treatment. Canadians often go to the US if they are really in need of good treatment. I also think that we should be able to pay for treatment for loved ones. We are after all allowed to buy houses and cars. In Canada this “two tiered” health access is, if not forbidden, at least discouraged for people other than politicians, professional athletes, or people on government disability programs who get priority treatment at public facilities.
@ Fridemann’ => “Ilya,
I suggest you read up on per capita GDP”
I should have said the highest GDP in the word and among the highest GDP per capita.
( I had had that idea to check before posting, wasn’t it Saudia Arabia with the highest GDP, but was lazy and also though it would be wrong for the purpose of the writting practice if I check every detail. You forced me to check it. You are right. The highest GDP per capita is Qatar, and that turns all my points upside down )
The point was, there is, in my opinion no reason to believe that the US will eventually meet todays challenges, including the energetic challenge, less effectively than any other country. The other point was my enthuisasm that we again discuss the stuff that seems interesting to me. And since then was in agreement with what you and Steve have written. On the climat change issue, i am more in agreement with Steve than with your points (expressed in other threads) but have currently no time to substantiate my position.
Ilya,
what makes you think that all countries will deal equally well with a changing energy situation? Sweden (few people, ample resources) is certainly better equipped than Germany (ample people, few resources), China with its huge population faces obvious challenges. The US is a large country with large distances for hauling gods and has until recently consumed a quarter of the world’s oil. Its own production has been in decline since the seventies. Mexico which has been a reliable provider is now entering decline as well. The American lifestyle has so far been based on cheap oil, so there are clearly challenges ahead for the US.