How do you want to count words in Japanese?

Open Forum
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Since the system is not yet customized for Japanese, I thought this would be a good time to bring up a discussion about counting words in Japanese and see what other users opinions are on the matter. Before any work is done, maybe our preferences can be considered while it is being programmed.

I believe Steve likes to count each conjugation of a word as a separate word. This will mean that each of the following forms of “speak” is one word.

話す
話します
話さない
話しません
話せ
話しなさい
話しなさるな
話そう
話しましょう
話すまい
話しますまい
話せば
話さなければ
話しませんなら
話して
話しまして
話さないで
話さなくて
話した
話しました
話さなかった
話したら
話しましたら
話さなかったら
話したり
話しましたり
話さなかったり
話せる
話される
話させる

That’s about 30 “words” but the real difference is the grammar. I feel it is only one word and in the dictionary you are only going to find one entry, that is 話す. Once you understand the grammar, you can understand how the meaning changes without studying each form of the word.

My point is, when LingQ says I know 10,000 Japanese words, what does that really mean? Does it mean I am advanced? Or will it mean that I only know a tenth as many words as it says? There is a big difference between knowing 1,000 words and 10,000 words. If a learner thinks he knows 10,000 words but really doesn’t, he will become discouraged because he does not yet understand much Japanese. If he knows 10,000 LingQ words in Chinese, he will know and understand a lot!

One of the ideas I like about LingQ is having some visible evidence to be able to judge where I am at in the language that I am learning. I think a function could be added in LingQ that tells me, out of all my known words, how many unique Kanji there are. Then I will know exactly how many Kanji I know. I dislike estimates. Everybody estimates wrong. I cannot keep track of everything on my own. But now with LingQ I can!

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My initial response is the keep these words separate and count them separately. This would enable the learner to see examples of these different forms in use. This takes the place of a lot of grammar explanation.

We may introduce some way of connect related words. On the other hand the learner can look at the words in alphabetical (or in the case of Japanese kana) order and see words with the same root.

The numbers are only meaningful within one language, as an indication of your progress. They cannot be used to compare progress levels in different languages.

Just to take the last few examples from your list. Each one of these is a form of the word that needs to be learned, not only in terms of recognizing the word, but in terms of using it. Each time you encounter this form and are not certain about how to use it, you save it. Otherwise you simply add it as a known word , incidentally. It is an opportunity to review your grasp of the grammar. You can also tag the same forms of different verbs to help focus on grammar forms that cause problems.
話さなかったら
話したり
話しましたり
話さなかったり
話せる
話される
話させる

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I guess there is nobody else who wants to discuss this very important topic.
I have let some time pass to see if anyone else besides me or Steve had any feelings on it, but I think I will continue the discussion.

No, wait. I have another point I want to make. I am going to go write about it in my blog. I will use that nice long list that I created in this thread.

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