Ehm…are you by any chance Christophe Clugston…? :-0
FSI Report - Lessons learned from fifty years of theory and practice in government language teaching
Content Edited.
@Imyirtseshem
“Anybody who uses a single method alone is an idiot.” – what’s the degree of arrogance on that?
Anyways, my general point was made I think. And I most certainly stand by the fact that the deciding factor in the long term success of ANY language learning method is the passion and dedication of the learner. What I want is for people to stop pretending as if they’ve found something better than a classroom, or better than courses which focus on speaking, or focus on listening, etc. etc. I believe that particular argument sells to the student/learner something which is just as harmful as telling them they can learn a language in 2 weeks.
Sorry to go off-topic, but I’ve just noticed that Mr Clugston has posted a new anti-Steve rant. (He also seems aware of our FSI discussion on this thread!)
@Imyirtseshem
The Clug also seems to take a nasty swipe at you in the video - start playing at 12:33 to see it!
I don’t think Clugston is devoid of linguistic or language learning knowledge, it’s just that he doesn’t express himself very well (or politely) and he gets very defensive and aggressive when people without “credentials” make statements about language learning. A lot of the criticisms he makes of other people’s language abilities are really the kinds of criticisms someone aiming for (and only willing to accept) a bilingual level might make.
Content Edited.
I think he said he read it on the HTLAL forum, not here…
Content Edited.
Peter, he could read the forum here without a LingQ account, couldn’t he?
(My guess is that he probably does monitor us - the same way that we monitor him!)
I’ve seen you comment on his videos on Youtube before, maybe that’s what he was referring to…
Eh? I have no memory of ever commenting on Clugston’s Youtube videos, Peter.
(I hardly ever comment at Youtube at all.)
EDIT:
I think I see what happened - you were replying to Imyirtseshem’s earlier comment, right? 
Content Edited.
Rick, let me be clear. I think that attitude, time with the language and developing the ability to notice, are the three key factors. Many people get turned on by the classroom, or a particular teacher, and as a result, spend a lot of time with the language away from class, and develop the ability to notice, and improve in their language skills.
In my view they are the minority. Many people are discouraged by language class, become dependent on teachers, don’t take initiatives in their learning, don’t do anything outside of the class, and don’t independently try to discover the language. Many people don’t have fun with the language in a classroom setting.
For many people it is a revelation to discover that they don’t need the classroom, that they don’t need to nail down verb tenses, the conjunctions, modals or any other aspect of grammar. They need to just imbibe the language, enjoy it, spend time with it. They need not speak if they don’t want to and can focus on understanding the language, reading and listening to things of interest, no pressure. They can refer to grammar, and do as much of it as they want, but they needn’t do exercises, or anything else they don’t like doing. They will still learn, and learn just as well or better than some other people in a classroom.
I have received countless emails and comments at Youtube from people, thanking me for making them realize these facts, and for changing their approach to language learning, enabling them to enjoy it, and have success.
Yeah, so to me the method matters, and I will continue to talk about the method.
Content Edited.
@Steve: “…I think that attitude, time with the language and developing the ability to notice, are the three key factors.”
Agreed - but you need to add “motivation” to the list, IMO.
(Many kids sitting in school language classes have no strong or clearly defined motivation. As a result they learn very little!)
Content Edited.
Actually, I regard the whole discussion about “the best way to learn languages” (or anything at all, that is) as highly ridiculous. There is no one best way. There are people who love classroom settings, there are people who thrive from comparing themselves to others. There are people who love listening passively and others who need the feeling of being part of a “real conversation” and learn most of struggling their way through a foreign environment.
I can’t even say that there was a best method for myself, because my likings change over time. As much as I might enjoy watching movies every night in cold and grey winter, as much I might be fed up with being tied to electric media in summer, when life is buzzing around me. I might read books for two months and then take part in a conversation class. There is no “one size fits all”.
I think, it’s a great thing to encourage learners to try a new method, different from the one they used before, because it might well be that they are just fed up with the method, but not with the actual subject of their studies. However, in my opinion it’s all about staying flexible and not sticking to any particular method just for the sake of it. Novelty may wear off and what seemed to be a revelation may become a drain - and then it’s time for a change again. So I’d rather not think too much about which method might be objectively the fastest or best one, but rather about which suits me and my lifestyle best for the moment. And just stick with the subject, not with the method.
Attitude includes motivation, confidence, interest in the language, desire to join another language community and more.
As stated, I think that the question of method is important, and, in my case this does not change with “lifestyle”. Others may feel differently, but I fail to see why this discussion is “ridiculous”.
Content Edited.
I’m sorry, if I sounded too harsh.
It’s just, all these polyglot discussions many people here in the forum seem to follow so avidly, have nothing to do with my experience in learning languages and probably not much with that of many other people.
Moreover, as I am meeting with other learners regularly (and most of these meetings are not online), I see almost every day that everyone has their own obstacles in aquiring a language and must develop their own individual methods to overcome them.
This is also due to how our own perception works. Think of people with photographic memory: of course they may rely on their specific ability when learning e.g. kanji or hanzi - but others just have to find other ways. (this is just one example)
Nonetheless, it’s always enriching to talk with people about their methods and ways to learn and to share methods and resources we have found helpful for ourselves. After all, only when we know about the methods we may choose the ones which suit us best.
It is indeed only the quest for the “one” best method that I find ridiculous, like Imyirtseshem said.