Flashcards - needless repetition?

the same problem (to get no help from the dictionary) is when you save more than one word. The babylon version from LingQ cannot recognize a term how “toying with”.
I bought an own version from babylon and so I have it open when I want to save more than one word for help.
The other possibility is, to open “other dictionary” I think you have those too. I have dict.cc for this an the good point is that I can have a very good pronunciation with that tool.

kgeoghegan:
“Say rather than moving a card from a 1 to a 4 in possibly 4 days, I’d prefer moving it from a 1 to an 8 say, over 8 days without the double repetition. Same amount of work but I think you’d remember the words easier.”

…or why not an “endless” level system as the SRS programs? :slight_smile: Each word that you don’t know will show up next time, and each word you know will be delayed according to how “well” you know it (i.e. how many times you have scored right).

But - I don’t see how the highlighting would disappear (if that’s is something that people want it to do). The other day somebody suggested “tooltips” as an option, and that would be similar to the often mentioned mouse-over dictionary.

This is a really interesting discussion!

My view of flashcards is changing. The fact that there is no context means you really are testing in many ways the absoluteness of your ability to understand the possible meaning(s) of “a word”. It’s not as fun as reading, but it does feel like its a burly man grabbing your mind by the neck, slamming it up against a wall and saying “Hey! Do you know this word?” :slight_smile: kind of like boot-camp for words.

If reading is an obstacle course then flashcards must be target practice. After all, it is “output” and it’s “focusing” your knowledge on specific terms.

Something interesting I have noticed with myself when flashcarding previous to lingq… it isn’t a 2 way street with fashcarding. As in, if you flashcard the meaning from LanguageA to LanguageB, it doesn’t necessarily directly improve the meaning from LanguageB to LanguageA- for myself at least. For instance, if I keep on flashcarding “je veux” and output “I want” I get good at associating “je veux” with “I want”… but when I am forming a sentence in my head and I begin with “I want…”, “je veux” doesn’t automatically pop up next to it. I find that I need to flashcard “I want” and output “je veux” before that association starts to stick. Just my observation shrugs.

Irene777:

I was wondering what dict.cc. I’ve seen it mentioned in the forums before so I looked it up. Wow, what an excellent idea - a user contributed dictionary! It looks really good. I see there is a toolbar for web browsing too. Gee, I wish I were studying German now! :slight_smile:

@kgeoghegan (wow, what difficult name - do you have a short one too?)
to learn German could be a good idea - perhaps I can help you :slight_smile:

Irene777: That is the short name :slight_smile: It’s Kevin Geoghegan in full. I think it’s Irish Gaelic spelling which is probably why it looks difficult (I’m Scottish by the way, not Irish). It’s pronounced the same as the German word ‘gegen’ if I remember that correctly. I used to know a little German years and years ago. I wouldn’t mind picking it up again but I suppose I better perfect my Spanish first. Thanks for the offer though :slight_smile:

jeff_lindqvist:
Yes the endless level system would be ideal. I was only trying to think of something that could fit in with LingQ’s current way of working easier.

Doesn’t Google Toolbar do translation tooltips? Wordchamp used to do a toolbar for IE and Firefox that gave you translation tooltips but mine stopped working a while back. I think you can still paste a web page into Wordchamp for translation like you can with Google Translate. Of course, the translation isn’t brilliant but it’s useful for checking your own effort.

rsherfan:
You have an interesting way with words :slight_smile:

Yes, producing a word (in the target language) is different from just recognising it as you say, and is more difficult.

LingQ only appears to have recognition type flashcards, which is fine until you get to the stage where you want to start speaking or writing I would think.

Kevin,

Have you given LingQ a real chance? Have you read and listened a lot and saved a lot of words? If you visit my profile you will see that I have saved 1050 LingQs just in the last two weeks. How many have you saved since you joined LingQ?

Dear Kevin, I have just read this forum thread and I too would like to respond. I saw that you suggested spreading out the ‘knowing’ of lingq’s by having status change at one click and then having the status ‘known’ be higher in number.

For different reasons I think that might be helpful, but I think it might work out to having status known be 7, not 8. I know my math is not very good, but now to go from status 1 to 2 have to click ‘correct’ twice. So to get the same result changing status at each ‘correct’ click the corresponding status to what is now status 2 would be status 3, right?

Now of course I should say why I like the idea in the first place. I know many of you work with a computer when revising vocabulary. Sometimes though, I use my phone. My vocabulary lists are generally between 60 and 100 words and I do get 7 or 8 of them a day, so I revise while travelling. That goes well until I get to a tunnel. There goes my beautiful work! Status changes for everything I checked twice, but sometimes I am only through the list 1,2 times and 20 words change status but 80 of them have to actually be checked thrice for status change to occur.
Of course, when I see the words the next time, the once I saw three times are the ones I remember best :slight_smile:

The second reason I like your idea is that I enjoy changing the words translation in between reviewing the vocabulary lists. For instance I will sometimes have to change spacing so as to make a particular word catch the eye. If status would have to change from 1 to 7, I would make the translations better 6 times in stead of 3, getting a more fetching end result.

You also said something about saving sentences in stead of words. When I do this and I do not have a translation ready for the entire sentence I just save the sentence with the word I know as a phrase and the translation of that word as a hint for the time being. That way the sentence is more prominent and I will more easily come up with the translation during the day after having read the card for the first time. I hope this can work for you too.

I find the flashcard system works really well, although I wasn’t convinced at first. I tend to select all the vocabulary from one assignment (usually about 20 - 30 words) and learn them altogether as a flashcard session. That way they aren’t “taken out of context” because I remember the segment of story they occurred in. I find them easy to learn that way. I then know I can archive the assignment when the vocabulary is all 3’s and 4’s.

Doing batches of 100 from different assignments (e.g. the lingQs of the day), on the other hand, makes my brain overheat. I’ll save that method for revision I think.

BTW I listen to some stuff 30 - 50 times. I find it helps me to get to sleep at night :wink:

Uau, how hated and beloved the flashcards are!
I personally love flashcards. Of course, reading and listening are easier tasks, but for learning, I think studying flashcards is essencial. And because I can see how flashcards fasten my learning, I’m a big fan of them. I study them in varied forms. LingQs of the day, priority lists and after I finish to create the LingQs for an item.
Of course, I forget a lot of them, even when they are in the known list. The LingQs of the day made this clearer for me.
Maybe the secret to deal with flashcards is not to worry too much about them. If I don’t remember a word, I simply look at the hint and phrase, but I don’t curse myself for this. Even if I have a lot of new ones in the first row, the second one is done very quickly. Of course, I’m taking advantage of short term memory, but I’m also pushing it to long term one when seeing it for the second time.
I asked a lot of times for the ability to change the LingQ name for the hint in the flashcard session, so to be able to improve my “active” vocabulary. I guess I still would like this feature. But the fact is that even without it my active vocabulary is growing wider and wider every day.

hi anapaula, may I ask you what you mean by ‘the ability to change the LingQ name for the hint in the flashcard session, so to be able to improve my “active” vocabulary’? I am afraid I don’t understand :frowning:

Hi Steve

“Have you given LingQ a real chance?”
Eh, I’ve just started using it.

“Have you read and listened a lot and saved a lot of words?”
Well not yet, I haven’t had the chance.

“If you visit my profile you will see that I have saved 1050 LingQs just in the last two weeks.”
Show off :slight_smile: I don’t think I’d ever manage to save that many.

“How many have you saved since you joined LingQ?”
Um, 68. Guess I have a bit of catching up to do, huh?

There’s a reason or two for that. One, is I’m finishing off a book, ‘Spanish For Reading’. I’ve been using that for some time and it’s quite good. It’s one of those programmed learning type texts and they take you through reading passages step by step, from having zero knowledge of Spanish to being able to read it quite well. An unusual type book.

Then I read an article from BBC Mundo most days but I haven’t imported those into LingQ yet. I usually look up some unknown words using the Oxford Spanish Dictionary (software edition) and save them to Anki for review later. That works OK - you just need to double click the word on the web page to go to the definition in the OSD and you can do a reverse lookup with one click too if you want. It speaks too, well sort of. Better than nothing I suppose. I like the example phrases. There’s loads of them. You could probably learn quite good Spanish just using that dictionary alone! It might get a bit boring though, so that is where LingQ comes in.

Oh yes, the other thing was, I was trying out (briefly) your Italian LingQ for beginners last week. So then I had a look at the beginner’s stuff in Spanish out of curiosity. I’m almost afraid to comment on that now!

Dear Kevin,

  • Hi Nicole. Are you in competition with Steve for The Linguist of the Year Award? :wink: I see from your bio that you are studying 10 languages mega impressed

I have just read this forum thread and I too would like to respond. I saw that you suggested spreading out the ‘knowing’ of lingq’s by having status change at one click and then having the status ‘known’ be higher in number.

  • Well actually all I wanted was the status to be changed if you got the answer correct (once). I just ‘invented’ the extra levels so that the total effort would remain the same.

For different reasons I think that might be helpful, but I think it might work out to having status known be 7, not 8. I know my math is not very good, but now to go from status 1 to 2 have to click ‘correct’ twice. So to get the same result changing status at each ‘correct’ click the corresponding status to what is now status 2 would be status 3, right?

  • eh, yes. If you insist :slight_smile:

Now of course I should say why I like the idea in the first place. I know many of you work with a computer when revising vocabulary. Sometimes though, I use my phone. My vocabulary lists are generally between 60 and 100 words and I do get 7 or 8 of them a day, so I revise while travelling.

  • You must do a lot of travelling!

That goes well until I get to a tunnel. There goes my beautiful work!

  • Oh dear! I imagine you use a different phrase!

Status changes for everything I checked twice, but sometimes I am only through the list 1,2 times and 20 words change status but 80 of them have to actually be checked thrice for status change to occur.

  • That could be a wee bit annoying. Do you go through many phones? :wink:

Of course, when I see the words the next time, the once I saw three times are the ones I remember best :slight_smile:

  • Always look on the positive side, eh?

The second reason I like your idea is that I enjoy changing the words translation in between reviewing the vocabulary lists.

  • I like to do that too after I read the text a few times. After all I only have 68 LingQs to play with - I’ve got to pass the time somehow ;-))

For instance I will sometimes have to change spacing so as to make a particular word catch the eye.

  • Highlighting would be a useful there. One can but dream!

If status would have to change from 1 to 7, I would make the translations better 6 times in stead of 3, getting a more fetching end result.

  • Well I was thinking that spacing out the translations over more days would make the words easier to remember with the same amount of work. Oops, I shouldn’t mention the word ‘spacing’ here eek :slight_smile: It’s just sort of slipped out. That’s me got 50 points deducted now laugh

You also said something about saving sentences in stead of words.

  • Yes, I was trying that out this week. I think it’s so easy to remember what a phrase means compared to single words. Well, usually.

When I do this and I do not have a translation ready for the entire sentence I just save the sentence with the word I know as a phrase and the translation of that word as a hint for the time being. That way the sentence is more prominent and I will more easily come up with the translation during the day after having read the card for the first time. I hope this can work for you too.

  • Hey, that’s a great idea! Sometimes I change the translation anyway, so adding the translation later would save time. I’ll definitely try that out.

  • Thanks a lot, Nicole.

Kevin,

You are such an enthusiastic participant here I did not think I could make you afraid to comment. I was rather hoping to spur you into action. In that vein I notice that your profile is a bit light when it comes to information about yourself.:slight_smile:

Darbanville,
I mean, that instead of having the flashcard showing me the word that I saved, it would show me the hint, so I can try to guess the word. This way I could test if I can recover the word in the target language, which I think is much more difficult that simply recognize the word when it is shown.
This ability is called somewhere by Steve “active vocabulary”, meaning the words you are able to use actively while speaking or writing. In contrast, the words that you recognize but can not remember while speaking are part of your passive vocabulary.

Anapaula, I had the same thought, but in anticipating the arrival of such a function in Lingq I simply use the Lingq of the day emails to copy-paste the words I am learning into the vocabulary section of the language of the hint. This is partly why my English vocabulary section has more volume than any other. Also, because I cannot do this with Dutch yet, I save some Dutch words as if they were lingqs in the vocabulary of the language I am learning and then have for instance the Italian word I am learning be the hint. This used to be a lot of work when typing it all, but with the lists in the mailbox it is very fast.

Nicole,

We hope to have Dutch here in the not too distant future as I have said, and we are counting on you for content, or even as a tutor!

The reverse Flash Card as some people call it is on our list. Meanwhile to test your ability to go from your own, or a very familiar language, into the target language, you can search by your Hint in the Vocab section. This was not working for a while but I just tried it and it works.

Steve,

You are right to count on me for content. At the moment I am trying to remember songs in Dutch I learned as a child and recording and typing them. To see if my voicerecording is compatable with lingq I have tried a small text in the English section.
I do not have skype yet, but someone is going to help me set that up and I would be happy to be a tutor for Dutch once I get the hang of that too.

Meanwhile, perhaps you could give me an idea on what sort of content would be useful to create? Should I focus on easy content or try to vary? Is it a problem if texts aren’t contemporary? Should I try to translate the book you have written in to Dutch?

You can see I still have many questions.

And thank you for the advice! To be quite honest, I had not even noticed there was a search button yet… oops.