yeah, I was even thinking at advance level actually. When you basically understand the meaning without having the need to know all the words. But the feeling is that you’re language learning process doesn’t move up anymore because there’s no focus on the language but just on the meaning (which is another story here).
Our brain is going to skip the effort to add new vocabulary and even different structures as it’ll be focus on doing other activities at the same time, there won’t be any text on where to be focus so it’ll just skip any no relevant thing. Plus it’ll wander as usual.
The other strategy is probably talking. Also listening to dialogue rather than prose. Sometimes I listen to the audio versions of articles from Le Monde Diplomatique. There is a lot I have to look up afterwards and it’s useful, yet I don’t know how much it contributes to active command of the language. Perhaps more than I think, because I can’t get everything I need from 1 or even 20 articles. The process is not ideal, it takes time and exposure and then active use to develop a skill. I’m not in a great rush.
Like I said, I think it’s useful to listen when you can comprehend it, at least to a partial extent. But if everything sounds like gibberish to you, you should lower the difficulty of the material, it’s not going to help you other than to familiarize you with the sounds and rhythms.
The thing is most new learning is not comprehensible, that is why it is being used. I know the idea is ‘comprehensible input’, but there’s a fairly natural barrier at some point.
The key question to ask, IMO is what is the purpose of listening?
For me, the purpose is to train my brain to get used to the way phrases are actually spoken rather than the way they look on a page. But if I don’t know the words and phrases that are being spoken, what good is it to listen to it?
If I know, oh I don’t know, maybe 90% of the content, then perhaps I can take figure out the meaning of the occasional word from context or if it’s important enough, make a note to look it up later. So for me, comprehensible input for listening would be something that I know nearly all of the words in the material. I can then focus on getting used to the sounds and rhythm.
if you are not advanced enough to understand a good portion of what you listen to it’s useless in my opinion i don’t believe in this theory floating around the internet that you can just soak up the language by hearing it even though you don’t understand a great deal of what you hear . and it can be confusing especially if the language you are learning has a pronounciation that differs dramatically from the way it’s written or if the sound of the letters differ dramatically from your mother tongue
I think a couple of points should be clarified in this discussion. The OP asked whether audiobooks without text were effective. The simple answer to that is: Yes. Very effective.
But that answer takes two presumptions into account:
People don’t listen to audiobooks unless they want to. It’s a form of entertainment that appeals to a lot of people who’d like to read more, but don’t have the eyeball time to read all the books they want. As such, in the vast majority of the cases, an audiobook is a voluntarily selected content with a presumption of interest in the story itself.
It is rare for someone to listen to an audiobook without a reasonable level of understanding that would allow to follow the story. For most people, these recordings cost too much money for something that you won’t understand enough of it to enjoy.
So, since no one listens to audiobooks unless they want to, and those who do listen to them tend to understand enough to follow the story, this form entertainment tends to be a classic example of “engaging comprehensible input” for most people who use it regularly. And as such, it’s a very effective way of engaging with the language, and building up comprehension and vocabulary. You can learn a lot of words from the context of audiobooks – you won’t know how to spell them until you look them up, but you will be able to pronounce them.
If the idea is that someone would just start listening to audiobooks by themselves as a primary method of learning a language from early stages, that’s not a question effectiveness – it simply doesn’t happen. No one does that. No one would suggest to do that. No one would succeed at doing that. AND, no one, in this “free, free, gimme, gimme, free” time we live in would spend $14 on a recording that bombards them with 20 hrs of audio they don’t understand a single word of. So that angle is simply pointless to discuss.
Yes, people like to claim they listen early to native podcasts “just to get used to the sounds,” but they do that because the podcasts are FREE and you don’t need to understand so much of a podcast to get something out of it – it’s usually just people chatting, who cares if you only get 10% of it. A book is different. I’ve never heard anyone say they listen to books without having reached a reasonable level of comprehension.
Right, I agree with you. Which makes reading more favorable in my eyes. It’s much, much easier to handle the mental load when you’re not fumbling to keep up with a native’s rapid-fire speech. When the text is in front of you, you can take as much time as you need to process the words. Reading truly is a godsend especially for beginners and intermediates.
Eventually you do have to immerse yourself in audio inputs, but I personally wouldn’t concentrate on it early on, though newer learners should definitely at least familiarize themselves with the sounds and rhythms of the language.
I agree. Reading and reading along with associated audio is best for the early-intermediate stages. The biggest mistake made by learners (of anything) is trying to memorise and work out input they can’t even conceptualise or recognise yet.
One thing I will say about the general view (which is a major hype now) of ‘learning like you learned your native language’, is that as an adult you simply won’t learn a second language like you learned your native language. Your experience is different, you are no longer a child with no filters. The best we can do is rely on the enjoyment factor to gain some benefit from passive learning. However, some work needs to be done and it will mostly be reading at the beginning. And matching this up with listening.
I think audiobooks are great for polishing your listening skills when you already have a certain base. If you are only starting with your language learning, they won’t help you at all.
Anyone can do the experiment. If you read, perhaps several times, the same words as are in an audio book (perhaps per chapter) and then listen to the audio chapter, you’ll understand far more than just listening to the audio ‘cold’. Exactly the same as dialogues and their transcripts.
Knowing this the question I would pose is: do you learn to understand and recognise such language in general, or do you learn to understand only THAT particular piece of prose/dialogue in isolation? I’ve found that I can understand audio very well in this way, but applying this to general listening is not so easy.
An important point is that when people are performing two tasks at the same time their performance deteriorates. People think that multitasking is productive and efficient for learning or getting work done, but the evidence is in the opposite direction.
Language learners are often advised to listen to audio while performing others tasks, as you note, but you will likely have a better learning experience if you focus on listening by itself.
Related to this, There is very likely a value to listening to an audiobook while following along with the written text. This permits you make the link between spoken and written language. In many cases spoken language will be unclear, for example in determining where words begin and end. Following along with the written text will help reinforce your recognition of where words begin and end.
I agree in general with the point about focused listening vs listening whilst doing something else. I do actually listen to audio whilst working (it’s a craft job, not mouse clicking job), but this only seems to work best with dialogues rather than prose. With prose I miss large chunks and in fact I do the very same thing of missing parts even when listening to prose in my native language while doing something else.
I strongly believe in the value of using text with audio; in order to, but not just to, make the link between spoken/written, language. I feel it speeds up the comprehension of the audio by adding another facet of comprehension of the same idea in a manner you’ve already mastered: reading.
It really depends on your level at the language you are listening too. It has to be high if you are to be doing something else while listening. If the audio book would otherwise be a little too difficult to understand, having read the novel beforehand really helps your understanding.
Ah, I think you mean when there is no way to ever read the text. Well then maybe having watched the corresponding movie beforehand would really help you understand the read text.
I think that only audiobook is not enough for me. I usually cannot understand what I am listening to. So I prefer the Whispersync for Voice of Audible (What is Audible Whispersync for Voice?). That helps me a lot.
Whispersync could be very useful. Unfortunately for international people it’s a mess and can’t be used.
I have US Audible because I used to read more American books but I have an Amazon Italian account. Whispersync works only if you buy ebooks from Amazon.com and Audible.com. But you can’t buy ebooks on Amazon.com if you are in another country. And Audible.com doesn’t work with whyspersync if you buy ebooks from other Amazon other that .com.
It’s a nosense policy for people that study languages!
It is a trillion dollar company and people who actually buy kindle books can’t even copy texts from amazon cloud reader and if try to convert it to another format then there is DRM protection issue. I do not know if this strategy actually made them a trillion company in the first so can’t blame them. It is a lose cause for users from a language learner point of view
In general, audiobooks on Audible are expensive. Being in Germany I have a slight advantage that we have a local ebay and German people believe in “circular economy” so instead of throwing them away in a bin they give away to students like us at a meager price. I bought 100 CDs for 10 euros comprising 40 audiobooks in total.
I indeed think they are! You not always have the possibility to follow the text. You can just put on your earphones and listen to some audiobook or podcast just for listening a target language. You don’t have to understand everything. You just remember the phrases, constructions which later you’ll recognize easier from context.