Full 3 hour coverage available on the BBC website for the next 7 days - the actual funeral begins 1 hour 38min into the film.
May she rest in peace. And may we who remain continue the fight against the Marxist scum who would drag our country (and every free nation) into the gutter.
UPDATE
The BBC iPlayer linked to above may not be available in all countries
ad Jay: (…) May she rest in peace. And may we who remain continue the fight against the Marxist scum who would drag our country (and every free nation) into the gutter. (…)
Wow, you seem to feel really strong about that.
I must say I never was a fan of hers when she was still Prime Minister but a few days ago I read a very interesting article in “Die Presse”, our conservative paper. The article started out with all the accusations thrown at her by her opponents and then the author gave his view of things and I must say that I found this very insightful. I am still not happy with all the things she said and did, but one of the core sentences in that article was basically something along the line “if it had not been for her, the UK would now almost be a third-world country”.
As you may know by now, I am somewhere centre-left (I don’t even know if you can say that in English, in German I’d say “mitte-links”). I think, but this is just my humble opinion as an outsider who admittedly is not an expert on UK politics, that under her leadership the country partly went from one extreme to another. From the “yoke” of the almighty unions (I don’t think there was any other European country at that time where the unions had such a strong grip on society as in the UK) to almost relentless privatization, worshipping the “free market” in a way that paved the way for what is now called neo-liberalism.
I much prefer what in Austria for example is called “social market economy” where the powers of the market are not the only forces shaping a society. I want the government to intervene in certain situations. You cannot put a price tag onto everything in life and a state should not be run as a private company, not if the shareholder value is seen as the utmost goal. There are many other factors that come into play.
One of her biggest and - in my opinion - unforgivable mistakes was her openly declared friendship with the mass murderer Pinochet.
The people in the UK seem to be deeply divided as regards her legacy but whatever you may think of her, I still believe that she truly wanted the best for her country and she did not deserve those disgusting chants of joy when people learnt about her death. Again, my memory of her will be mainly tainted by her support for Pinochet.
She probably did some good and some bad things. I would need to take a closer look at various sources providing information about her years as Prime Minister to be able to come to somewhat of a final conclusion on her political career. As a human being, I hope she’ll find rest whereever she is. And that is not something I wish for Pinochet or other butchers of world history.
I just tried to watch the clip on the site you mentioned. This is the message I got after my attempt had failed:
(…) Rights agreements mean that BBC iPlayer television programmes are only available to users to download or stream (Click to Play) in the UK. (…)
I never understood why I can’t even subsribe to skype satellite programmes when willing to pay for them just because I don’t have an address in the UK. I thought we had free movemement of goods and services in the EU. This seems to be one of the cases where market forces (alias “rights agreements”) stand for less and not more freedom. Well, I’ll just have to do with the reports here in Austria then.
@Robert: “…Wow, you seem to feel really strong about that…”
I guess you’re right Robert, the word “scum” does seem a little over the top. But you have to understand what has been going on here in the run-up to this funeral - a small number of unwashed violent leftwing extremists have been holding “death parties”, and similar tasteless acts. And some have even been threatening to disrupt the funeral. It is hard not to see these people as the lowest of the low.
I’m sorry the BBC iPlayer isn’t available in Austria. I really can’t understand why they would want to limit their viewers in this way.
@Robert: “…This seems to be one of the cases where market forces (alias “rights agreements”) stand for less and not more freedom…”
(Actually the BBC is in no wise subject to market forces - they are entirely funded by TV-licence fees!)
@Robert: “…One of her biggest and - in my opinion - unforgivable mistakes was her openly declared friendship with the mass murderer Pinochet…”
You have a point - but really this friendship arose from his help for the UK in the Falklands war. War is an ugly and desperate thing, and it sometimes brings together strange bedfellows (as in the alliance between the West and the Soviet Union in the war against Hitler.)
ad Jay: (…) small number of unwashed violent leftwing extremists have been holding “death parties”, and similar tasteless acts. (…)
This says more about these people than it would ever say about what she did.
Margret Thatcher was of course a fervent supporter of market capitalism. I am not sure what the right form to organise our societies is but the market capitalist system does have very serious flaws indeed:
Wrong price signals, long term costs to and services by the environment are not correctly priced.
Unsustainable model for a finite planet, think growth of yeast bacteria on a limited supply of sugar
Instinct of profit maximisation of each market participant does not necessarily yield the optimum result for society. Examples I usually like to cite here are the tobacco industry, the food industry and the (US) health care industry. All those industries are highly profitable but make us sick and die early and cause enormous costs to society (the former two industries) and cause a highly inefficient health care system (the latter).
Robert is right about the Pinochet connection. This guy was in fact an international criminal involved in arms trading, its a shame he never had to answer for his crimes.
Regarding the death parties: If people express these opinions in a non violent way I guess they are exercising a very basic and sacred democratic right.
Friedemann, I already pointed out how the “Pinochet connection” came about.
If you are fighting to defend a small British community 8000 miles away from home against foreign military aggression, and if someone in that part of the world offers logistical help, what the heck are you going to do?
(BTW I don’t even want to go into the rights or wrongs of the whole Falklands/Malvinas argument. I can understand the way many people in Argentina feel. But when their government invaded the islands in 1982, and made the small garrison of marines based there lie face down in the mud in front of TV cameras, they should have understood that they were starting a war.)
I have no ideas how one lives with decisions that caused other people’s lives, like Thatcher (Falkland), GW Bush (Iraq), or our former Chancellor Schmidt, when he refused to negotiate with hostage takers in the 70ies.
That probably also means that I don’t have what it takes to become a head of state.
ad Jay: (…) If you are fighting to defend a small British community 8000 miles away from home against foreign military aggression, and if someone in that part of the world offers logistical help, what the heck are you going to do? (…)
Excerpt from her speech held at the Blackpool Conservative Party Conference in 1999:
(…)
Today I break my self-denying ordinance. And for a very good reason, namely to express my outrage at the callous and unjust treatment of Senator Pinochet. But first I want to extend a personal welcome to our Chilean guests, who have come half way round the world to be with us. They should understand the deep sense of shame and anger we feel at the way in which Chile - its honour, its dignity, its sovereignty and its former ruler - have been treated.
I do not know when or how this tragedy will end. But we will fight on for as long as it takes to see Senator Pinochet returned safely to his own country. Chileans can rest assured that, however contemptibly this Labour Government behaves, the British people still believe in loyalty to their friends.
Chile is our oldest friend in South America. Our ties are very close and have been ever since Admiral Cochrane helped free Chile from oppressive Spanish rule. He must be turning in his grave to see Britain now encouraging Spain’s arrogant interference in Chilean affairs. (…)
With all due respect, but her blindness is sickening. She calls a military dictator who is responsible for the killing and torturing of thousands of people a “ruler”?!
She indiscriminately refers to supporters of the dictator as if they represented the entire Chilean population to stir up some nationalistic feelings as if the British had attacked Chile.
And then she goes on and obviously thinks it fit to put the then Spanish goverment on the same level as the “oppressive Spanish rule” over Chile. What if current statesmen used the British oppressive rule over India as an argument in the next negotiations with the UK for example? This kind of behaviour simply is unworthy of an intelligent woman (which she obviously was).
When she said that Admiral Cochrane must have been turning in his grave, I really can’t even begin to imagine what was turning in her head while she was giving that speech.
“Loyalty to their friends?” So, if a criminal does something good for you, all of a sudden his crimes are all forgotten and forgiven?
Her entire speech was not really worthy of a statesperson, ridiculing the Spanish legal system
(…) The chance of Senator Pinochet’s receiving anything resembling what we in Britain would recognise as ‘justice’ in a Spanish court as minimal …(…)
and lashing out at the Spanish government in general by resorting to slandering generalizations
(…) to collaborate with Spain, whose bullying of Gibraltar is a daily outrage, yet treats our Chilean allies with contempt. (…)
Honestly, I wonder if she realized what she was saying there. Let me get this straight, a democratically elected (albeit socialist) Spanish government is called a bunch of bullies, BUT a general who ousted a democratic government and terrorized an entire country for years is an ally?!
With all due respect, Jay, the “Pinochet connection” was not just based on some military assistance, it was exemplary of how she saw the world: You serve me and my country, and I basically don’t give a sh… who you are and what you do. She clearly stated on many occasions what she thought of the concept of “compromise”. She considered it a weakness, if not outright stupidity. It was all or nothing for her, and the way she preferred it was all for her and nothing for those she considered to be her enemies.
This does not mean, however, that everything she did was wrong. She must have done a few things right because the UK was generally speaking in a better shape after her term of office than when she came to power. But as for the Pinochet connection as you call it, I just can’t be as forgiving and understanding as you are.
I find it also quite ironic that she fought a military regime (the Argentinian junta was just as terrible as Pinochet) with the help of another criminal and treats the latter like a hero while the first are the pure devil in her eyes.
ad Friedemann: (…) I have no ideas how one lives with decisions that caused other people’s lives, like Thatcher (Falkland), GW Bush (Iraq), or our former Chancellor Schmidt, when he refused to negotiate with hostage takers in the 70ies. (…)
I agree with you that war should be avoided whenever possible but there are times when it is necessary to fight in order to avoid an even worse course of events. We all know what terrible consequences the “appeasement policy” of the 1930s had when Hitler started his rampage.
What would have been a viable option in the Falkland crisis? Negotiate with a military junta? You do realize that for such people negotiations are no option, don’t you? They killed children and women by the thousands and you think these people will sit down at a table to negotiate? They needed the attack as a diversion from the economic and social problems in their country. That’s what all dictatorships do. They find themselves an enemy and attack and resort to some brainless national rhetoric. If the Hungarians attacked Austria to get “Burgenland” back and if Austria attacked Italy to get “Südtirol” back, what should the reactions be? You cannot just let people get away with attacking another country and oppressing its people.
The Iraq war is a totally different matter. It was nothing but a bloody hunt for oil. The Bush administration felt hurt in its pride, after all Hussein no longer wanted to play the dog on the leash as he had done for so many years. He was good enough for the US when he started the war against Iran for example. Everybody knew that he was just as evil then as he was when they invaded Iraq.
As for the hostage takers and Chancellor Schmid, I just could not live with that feeling of guilt either. I’m sure he could have saved some lives then and Germany would have still remained a democracy. When principles are put before the lives of people, it is always the innocent that suffer the most.
(…) That probably also means that I don’t have what it takes to become a head of state. (…)
I wouldn’t give up hope quite yet 
ad Friedemann: (…) Regarding the death parties: If people express these opinions in a non violent way I guess they are exercising a very basic and sacred democratic right. (…)
Protesting and assembling in public is a basic and democratic right, despicable behaviour is not. Rejoicing over the death of another person is not just expressing an opinion. Again, as long as they are not causing any disturbances, they have nothing to fear from the security forces or the legal system of a democratic state. But not everything you are allowed to do automatically equals a right given to you. I still think this kind of behaviour is disgusting.
@Robert
Well, okay, she did express support for Pinochet. It wasn’t her finest hour, I guess. In fairness, though, you can’t just single out Thatcher in this regard - he was also strongly supported by US-governments in the 70s and 80s.
Of course this has to be seen in the context of the struggle against Communism in South America in the 1970s. (It is not entirely clear whether the Marxist regime which Pinochet overthrew had huge respect for human rights either?)
I strongly agree with your other comments. War should always be the very last resort - in the case of Iraq it was not necessary, and it resulted in huge civilian loss of life. I have always felt that it was unjustified and wrong.
I am glad you see that the Falklands war was a different matter entirely. If someone attacks you, then you really have not very much choice in the matter. (BTW There is a kind of irony too: if the Argentinian government had continued the with diplomatic route in the 1980s, there would probably be some kind of agreement by now…)
ad Jay: (…) he was also strongly supported by the US-governments of the day. (…)
Of course, he was. We all know what kind of role the then US government played in the military coup.
P.S. Reading an article about the funeral in an Austrian paper, I came across this link:
http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=110916
Very interesting historical documents and videos. She was indeed an outstanding speaker. I guess I’ll go through some of these documents and vids over the next weeks to get a better picture of her political career. Sure, this site is sponsored by her supporters but it still contains a lot of authentic material definitely worth to have a look at.
@Robert
That looks like an interesting link, thanks.
On a rather lighter note, I also saw this comment from a German website:
I must confess that, solemn occasion nothwithstanding, there was a part of my brain which had similar thoughts! 
As the article says: “…Im Gegensatz zur lebenslustigen Middelton-Schwester gilt die in den USA lebende Thatcher-Enkelin als unprätentiose Studentin, die von ihrer Mutter in christlich-konservativem Geist erzogen wird…”
Eine Traumfrau ist das! 
Thanks for the URL to the Amanda Thatcher video, J 4 J!
Do you (or anyone) have any more links to German-language articles on this topic?
PS I found this video programme on YOuTube for those who can’t access iPlayer: Margaret Thatcher funeral: St Paul's service in full - YouTube